[NL20-NL50] TT 3bet push

    • mlatasrb
      Joined: 01.04.2012 Posts: 2,722
      iPoker - $0.20 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: 78.95 BB
      UTG: 100 BB
      Hero (MP): 286.75 BB
      CO: 36.8 BB
      BTN: 247.45 BB
      SB: 134.5 BB

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T:heart: T:club:

      UTG raises to 3.5 BB, Hero raises to 12 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG raises to 25 BB, Hero raises to 286.75 BB and is all-in, UTG calls 75 BB

      Flop: (201.5 BB, 2 players) 4:diamond: 2:spade: 7:club:

      Turn: (201.5 BB, 2 players) 9:heart:

      River: (201.5 BB, 2 players) 3:spade:

      UTG shows K:club: K:spade: (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 81%, Flop 92%, Turn 95%)
      Hero shows T:heart: T:club: (One Pair, Tens) (Pre 19%, Flop 8%, Turn 5%)
      UTG wins 191.45 BB
      Hero wins 0 BB

      1 k hands, 25/20, 3bet 7, 4bet 17 (6/35), opens EP 22%, fold to 3bet 76%

      Is 3bet ok here, he is regg, and he is opennign wider from EP? Also I want to avoid being sqeezed, or playing 3way OOP. I am also not sure about my shove. As I read in articles, I should not 3bet fold TT, JJ, because it is also future EV for KK,AA if I want them to call me, and i have FE.

      Also I am not sure how to estimate his 4bet range? My stats in pokertracker4 show me just percantage how often he 4bets when he has a chance. So in this case, 17%. Can I then say, if he opens 22%, 17% 4bet, then his 4bet range is around 1/5 of 22% which is 4% 4bet range?
  • 3 replies
    • BogdanPS
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi mla,

      Without any history of aggression between you I think that you are spewing money 3-bet/shoving TT MP vs UTG.

      Villain has already shown that he can fold a lot to 3-bets and his range is skewed towards pure value when he 4-bets us in these positions. It's not like we are in CO vs BTN or BTN vs BB where he can expect wider 3-bet ranges.

      I also think that 3-betting this hand as a bluff preflop is a waste of a good hand and we should just call. CO is shorter and may squeeze and then we can go with him if UTG folds.

      I also can't pronounce about the other guys because you haven't posted info on them but what we can see is that we may have a fish in BB and the other two are deeper with us.

      I would definitely not look at his 4-bet % or 4-bet range over this sample because it's just too small and very inaccurate because, as the 3-bet %, the 4-bet % varies by position as well. So if he were in the BTN I'd expect him to 4-bet more than in UTG.
    • mlatasrb
      Joined: 01.04.2012 Posts: 2,722
      Ok, I got your point.

      I played this way, because I watched the video "Gap the mind" (in pokerstrategy.com) and they say that in order to be unexploitable we should 3bet around 11.4%, and when villian is aggro 4bet then we should 5bet AQ+, TT+ for value and then we are unexploitable.
      So I started following that, but it seems that I need more stats to realize who is 4betting light and with which hands they call 5 bet.
      I think that approach is good against aggro players in NL20 because they 4bet bluff but most of people call only QQ+, AK 5 bet against which I still have around 40% equity and a lot of FE if they 4bet as bluff often.
    • Desultory
      Joined: 06.02.2013 Posts: 129
      Most peoples 4bet bluff ranges won't be high enough to profit from doing the above. Especially utg vs mp at full ring. Maybe that is different at NL20, but I doubt it.

      If this was Blinds vs button or BB vs SB or maybe even blinds vs co, then it has more chance of being fine, because people will 4bet bluff more from these positions.

      That being said, if you have history with a player and you have 3bet him ALOT, and your stats reflect this (even from MP v UTG) then your play could be fine. From MP though, you also have to worry about the players left to act behind you.

      People don't do this as standard though because the profit of this play is entirely dependant on what villain 4bet bluffs, and I think unkown villains won't and shouldn't 4bet bluff that wide from these positions.