[NL2-NL10] AA and flushdraw on river

    • generals007
      generals007
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)        
      code:
      Position(Stack):
      vp$ip	foldbb	ats	pfr
      af	w$sd	wts	hands
      
      CO (12,71)
      SB (11,34)
      

      0,05/0,10 No-Limit Hold'em [color:blue](10 handed)[/color]
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A:diamond: , A:club:
      [color:grey]6 folds[/color], [color:red]CO raises to $0,30[/color], [color:grey]BU folds[/color], [color:red]Hero raises to $1,00[/color], [color:grey]BB folds[/color], CO calls $0,70.

      Flop: ($2,10) 9:diamond: , 8:club: , 5:heart: [color:blue](2 players)[/color]
      Hero checks, CO checks.

      Turn: ($2,10) 7:club: [color:blue](2 players)[/color]
      [color:red]Hero bets $1,20[/color], CO calls $1,20.

      River: ($4,50) K:club: [color:blue](2 players)[/color]
      [color:red]Hero bets $3,50[/color], [color:grey]CO folds[/color].

      Final Pot: $8,00


      CO has been agressive beforehand... not a maniac though.
      I checked on flop oop because he probably didn't hit crap and there were no real draws that could cause me any harm. I could have caught a bluff or he could catch sth on turn.
      Had to bet turn since he could have a draw now, and i need to get value in.
      Now main question: what is more important on that river? Pot control against for example flush? Or getting value in since he could hold a K. Looking back it was probably unwise to bet the river. I couldn't see any reason for him calling the turn and not having the flush on river.
  • 7 replies
    • srohack
      srohack
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 1,908
      hi
      ALWAYS cbet that flop with aces either in a reraised pot or just a raised one . you will put your self in very hard spots and you will start wondering why your aces get cracked if you dont . even if AA is a good hand it is just a pair and its not that hard for your opponent to improve into a better hand when you give him the chance (giving him freecards)
      at this point i have to say to you STOP SLOWPLAYING! . slowplay just when you have quads and bet everything else . dont think about traping at this limit because villains call you way to light and you will be losing way to much value
      edit : as player bet more on the turn , bet river
    • generals007
      generals007
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      Sorry if I have to ask again - I don't want to be obsessive or anything but what hand could possibly call me on the flop (except a hit pocket pair)? It's unlikely that he is holding A9 or A8 - I'd put him on something like KQ, which probably won't call me on the flop. If he's got a high PP he'll bet himself and he will face a reraise which he will probably call. There's no draws on this board that could hurt me except TJ which i doubt he's have raised pf.

      Could you explain in detail or make more clear why this is a bad spot to slowplay... taking into consideration the possible hands of villain? I've made a lot of my money up to this point seeing opponents hit an overpair on the turn and going allin on that one. I'll lose him there if i bet.

      gen
    • generals007
      generals007
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      at this point i have to say to you STOP SLOWPLAYING!


      I am only posting hands where I am slowplaying or hands where I am unsure if I did the right thing. I seldomly slowplay - I play about 4000 hands on NL10 per day atm and probably 10 or them get slowplayed - mostly hit sets on the flop in pf raised pots where there's no face card and villain probably didn't hit crap.

      Opponents don't float on microlimits.

      gen
    • srohack
      srohack
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 1,908
      hi
      if you play 4k hands on the day then you must know how light villains call at this limit . so you must try to get the maximum value from every situation ... not all the villains call just broadway cards or just pp when facing a reraise . they have a weider 3bet calling range . and they have a wide calling range on this flop . probably any pair + draw any pair or any draw . so why should you let him see another card for free when you can make them pay for it ? no reason .
      you want as much money to get in with aces so you have to create a good set up for it . you cant just check check and than get all in on the turn because then you are beat when have action . you have to bet flop in orther to bet biger turn and have less then a PotSizeBet on the river .
      you have to balance your ranges in order to make your cbets when you dont hit profitable . if always when you have aces you wont bet this flop and when you dont have nothing you will bet some players may observe that and start floating and raising your cbets .
      this is nl10 and players arent too observant so maybe you can play exploitable against them and get away with it , but if you want to move higher in limits you have to think about this kind of things .
      aces arent the nuts they can be cracked easily . the only thing you can do to protect your aces is not giving your opponents odds to draw . and you can do this just by beting .
      gl
    • generals007
      generals007
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      I ran the numbers like on the big examples in the BBS Gold section. I assumed very wide pf handranges for villain and flopcalls for him wherever he's got anything that could possibly improve or have hit if i bet.
      On the most callin-station-like play of villain i get a high net gain.
      If he is reasonable but makes mistakes like underestimating my bet (I assumed 1,70) and calling with bad odds i get a net gain.
      If he plays reasonable without major mistakes I get a diminishing-to-nothing net gain.
      If he plays as he should play I lose very little money on not slowplaying, but that assumes the BBS handranges for a raise pf.
      I always assumed maximum implied value for villain if he hits sth that could beat me.

      So under the line you are (of course) right since I can't assume he is playing all reasonal. I lose money on not betting here, and quite a bit. I would never have thought of this to be plussy, betting here. I think it was necessary for me to write more than a Word document page to understand that. I will play a bit better from now on on those flops. That helped me alot.

      Assuming i play on in microlimits and I play against a marginal opponent there. What would be a flop to slowplay? After this thread I cannot think of a possible hand that would be profitalbe for slowplaying. Should i ALWAYS bet if i have something?

      gen
    • srohack
      srohack
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 1,908
      hi
      yeah ... that is basicaly my points . never slowplay a decent hand (unless for quads) because people at micro stakes are just too dumb and will call you way to light
      very nice job doing calculations . thats the way to improve your game . keep posting . you are on the good road to nl25 :)
      gl
    • generals007
      generals007
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.09.2007 Posts: 578
      I have ways to go to NL25 as you can see ^^

      I am planning on learning SH before going there anyways. That is going to take a wile.

      gen