poker good, full tilt bad

    • goodnight131
      goodnight131
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2012 Posts: 10
      Just finished my first deposit bonus on FT and have to say the amount of consistent bad luck I experienced on the site was ridiculous. I could show some hand histories that would shock and amaze.The same thing happened to me when I first registered to stars. In fact these are the 2 worst runs I've ever had while playing poker. Normally I don't go along with the idea online poker is rigged, but this time on FT I definitely felt something was going on. Feel sure they are trying to claw back some or all of their bonus money. P.s I am a winning micro cash player (on sites apart from FT that is).
  • 40 replies
    • Phoenix2104
      Phoenix2104
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 183
      My view about the integrity of poker rooms tends to stabilize around the following concept:
      There is a system called "Essence" that the Ongame network uses to distribute loyalty points to players and it takes into account whether a player is winning or losing the last sessions and distributes the points accordingly. This is official. So a system that can check in real-time whether a player involved in a hand is winning or losing, already exists and is in effect.
      My thought is, why can't sites use a similar system to favour losing players by tweaking the cards to be dealt, lessening so the impact of their bad decisions on their bankroll?
    • badgerer
      badgerer
      Silver
      Joined: 29.03.2010 Posts: 555
    • Phoenix2104
      Phoenix2104
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 183
      Originally posted by badgerer
      I imagine this must have been the reaction of the average person when Pythagoras first stated that the earth is round. :D
      Anyway, thanks for the well documented reply, I always enjoy a meaningful discussion. :rolleyes:
    • badgerer
      badgerer
      Silver
      Joined: 29.03.2010 Posts: 555
    • dannywratten
      dannywratten
      Gold
      Joined: 11.05.2010 Posts: 1,462
      Are you going to post these hand histories then?
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,724
      I find Full Tilt's continuous shuffle generates an inordinate number of 4 card flushes and straights.
    • Phoenix2104
      Phoenix2104
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 183
      "According to his (Barry Greenstein) article PokerStars' blog, his nephew said that "anyone who's a programmer who knows how to hook up an iPad to another computer could easily cheat using the app."
      By using a proxy server and the app, a knowledgeable person could see all the cards in play and manipulate the action."
      This is for those who think that the integrity of online poker is unquestionable.
      The fact that some of them apparently have not yet learned how to write perhaps explains a lot of things...
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by Phoenix2104
      "According to his (Barry Greenstein) article PokerStars' blog, his nephew said that "anyone who's a programmer who knows how to hook up an iPad to another computer could easily cheat using the app."
      By using a proxy server and the app, a knowledgeable person could see all the cards in play and manipulate the action."
      This is for those who think that the integrity of online poker is unquestionable.
      The fact that some of them apparently have not yet learned how to write perhaps explains a lot of things...
      Hm. I personally don't think FT is rigged, despite seeing some unreal beats recently. Donks will always call bottom pair and chase backdoors, and even backdoors get there 1/25 which ain't that rare. Even AA is only 85% favourite preflop. Poker is a game of marginal edges and you gotta work em good since you're getting worked good by rake especially at FT.

      That being said, anyone who says "online is rigged" or "online isn't rigged" without legitimate evidence is just wasting time. Yes, Black Friday let us know that these companies are not always legit. All we can do is hope it is legitimate under Rational Group. Personally if I can make any money at all playing a fun card game I am not gonna complain.

      The one greenstein is talking about probably has a spectator function. I doubt Stars/FT can be cracked with just an iPad. Those things suck balls.
    • Phoenix2104
      Phoenix2104
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.04.2011 Posts: 183
      Originally posted by metza
      Hm. I personally don't think FT is rigged, despite seeing some unreal beats recently. Donks will always call bottom pair and chase backdoors, and even backdoors get there 1/25 which ain't that rare. Even AA is only 85% favourite preflop. Poker is a game of marginal edges and you gotta work em good since you're getting worked good by rake especially at FT.

      That being said, anyone who says "online is rigged" or "online isn't rigged" without legitimate evidence is just wasting time. Yes, Black Friday let us know that these companies are not always legit. All we can do is hope it is legitimate under Rational Group. Personally if I can make any money at all playing a fun card game I am not gonna complain.
      I didn't say I'm certain online poker is rigged but I do believe it's a possible scenario. I'm just trying to explain some very strange behaviors, like people calling all-in bets with air and then hit 2 pairs on the 2 remaining cards and win. What I find particularly strange is the percentage of wins of these totally irrational behaviors which is much much bigger than the 2% or 5% it ought to have been. I'm not talking about people who call bets with a pair of 2s and get lucky. I'm talking about people who call all-in bets with 10 high and no draw and get lucky. I find it really strange that these seemingly extremely stupid moves get rewarded, if not most of the time, certainly though at a percentage much higher than 2% or 5%.
      The fact is poker rooms are in a panic right now because people are not depositing new money at the rate they ought to to keep the system alive. What I'm saying is that I don't know what this panic can lead them to do in order to keep the "fresh" players alive longer. And I'm talking about all the sites, not just FTP.
      Of course such views are not accepted well by the people who have an interest in this market because they spoil the average person's sentiment towards online poker, and this is bad for their business.
    • Spikelema
      Spikelema
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 55
      One thing I will point out, if online poker was rigged in any way shape or form in any conceivably accurately testable way the ramifications would be catastrophic, we are talking about All of the money traded on the poker site for a measurable time period being under scrutiny and value as damages. No company would want to risk it especially with the amount of money poker sites make from legitimate practices.

      Poker Rooms routinely run their RNG through professional accreditation sites to alleviate this kind of thing

      (Full tilt specific example) http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/about-us/legal-information/terms/random-number-generator

      I understand with a Tinfoil hat on you can ask the question about what happens after the RNG but the software is tested up until the point where it has a digital deck ready for dealing. It does not "choose" random cards. It creates a virtual deck of cards using random number and draws from the stack, meaning it can not just say, I want this next card to be "A" Clubs. (For example).


      Edit:

      To extend what metza said, AA against full ring only has about a 31% chance of winning. The 85% is only when evaluated against any other single hand. (With AA is everyone was in at a Showdown the AA would only win 31% of the time)
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,064
      Very strange. :D When I always play Zoom, and a wet board comes, I always predict cards. :D Example:

      Hero (BTN) $1million: A :heart: A :spade:
      Villain (BB)$600k: Unknown yet

      Hero raises 20k, Villain raises 60k, Hero raises 195k, Villain calls.

      Flop: 9 :club: A :diamond: J :club:

      Villain goes all-in, Hero calls.

      Turn: T :club:

      River: 8 :club:

      Board: 9 :club: A :diamond: J :club: T :club: 8 :club:

      Hero shows: A :heart: A :spade: and lost shitloads of money
      Villain shows: 7 :heart: 2 :diamond: and rapes Hero in the bumhole...

      Somehow I always see the turn and river coming the it actually does and then I imagine the villains hand, and THEN...

      I don't state that online poker is rigged, I just want to tell you guys that I am magician. :pokerface:
    • badgerer
      badgerer
      Silver
      Joined: 29.03.2010 Posts: 555
      Originally posted by Rihard4a
      I just want to tell you guys that I am magician. :pokerface:
      nice skill. have you tried sports betting? also i hear that lotteries and raffles have super soft fields this time of year.
    • thazar
      thazar
      Silver
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,561
      if you were that skilled you would have folded pre ;)
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,064
      I can't guess the board preflop. Only when the flop is dealt I construct the future cards. :D :D But this only happens when I am all-in on the flop. Weird. :pokerface:
    • mineriva
      mineriva
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.04.2008 Posts: 913
      "That being said, anyone who says "online is rigged" or "online isn't rigged" without legitimate evidence is just wasting time. Yes, Black Friday let us know that these companies are not always legit. All we can do is hope it is legitimate under Rational Group. Personally if I can make any money at all playing a fun card game I am not gonna complain."

      I recently had some strange experiences at FTP. What really created the ??? in my mind was that the particular hand histories were NOT saved to my HDD. I could go in the "hand histories" in the FTP client but they were not on my HDD and PT3 and HM could not find the hands.

      My problem is, (put on your tin foil hat) if a poker client is going to do "some thing funny" is it not the next logical idea to not save the hand to HDD. Then the "victim" will have no proof.
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,064
      Originally posted by mineriva
      My problem is, (put on your tin foil hat) if a poker client is going to do "some thing funny" is it not the next logical idea to not save the hand to HDD. Then the "victim" will have no proof.
      :facepalm:
    • zumpar
      zumpar
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 1,185
      lol
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,403
      Remember that this is just your own subjective experience. People who are on the other side of the situations you find so "unlucky" or 'implausible' are not saying "poker is rigged", they're saying 'oooh, lucky day - I rule'.
    • Jafreiteris
      Jafreiteris
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.05.2008 Posts: 283
      ***** Hand History for Game 32160065778 ***** (Full Tilt)
      $5.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, February 20, 05:42:38 ET 2013
      Table Lonesome (6 max) (Real Money)
      Seat 5 is the button
      Seat 1: Jafreiteris ( $5.05 USD )
      Seat 2: steburnst ( $7.87 USD )
      Seat 3: tigar007 ( $4.89 USD )
      Seat 4: MercedesDanz ( $3.94 USD )
      Seat 5: NunoFGR ( $3.88 USD )
      Seat 6: Shadowwaker ( $7.07 USD )
      Shadowwaker posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
      Jafreiteris posts big blind [$0.05 USD].
      ** Dealing down cards **
      Dealt to Jafreiteris [ 8 :heart: 2 :heart: ]
      tigar007 raises [$0.15 USD]
      MercedesDanz raises [$0.25 USD]
      NunoFGR calls [$0.25 USD]
      Shadowwaker folds
      Jafreiteris calls [$0.20 USD]
      tigar007 calls [$0.10 USD]
      ** Dealing Flop ** [ 9 :heart: , 8 :diamond: , T :heart: ]
      Jafreiteris checks
      tigar007 bets [$0.50 USD]
      MercedesDanz raises [$1.25 USD]
      NunoFGR raises [$3.63 USD]
      Jafreiteris raises [$4.80 USD]
      tigar007 calls [$4.14 USD]
      MercedesDanz calls [$2.44 USD]
      Jafreiteris shows [8 :heart: , 2 :heart: ]
      tigar007 shows [4 :heart: , A :heart: ]
      MercedesDanz shows [K :diamond: , K :heart: ]
      NunoFGR shows [9 :spade: , 9 :club: ]
      Jafreiteris wins $0.16 USD
      ** Dealing Turn ** [ 8 :spade: ]
      ** Dealing River ** [ 8 :club: ]
      Jafreiteris wins $1.77 USD from main pot
      Jafreiteris wins $0.17 USD from main pot
      Jafreiteris wins $14.51 USD from main pot

      (flop : 1% turn : 3% river : fulltilt)

      Drunk is tilted...