[NL20-NL50] NL50 SH - 4o: TP vs donkey

    • Lunitis
      Joined: 22.02.2009 Posts: 20,131
      CO: 17/12
      60% fold vs 3bet
      60% fold vs cbet 3bet pop

      BB: 41/7
      0% fold vs 3bet
      20% donkbet
      2/8 fold donkbet vs raise
      42% wwsf
      1.5k hands

      [converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $20 (40 bb)
      BB: $50.01 (100 bb)
      UTG: $18.25 (36.5 bb)
      MP: $162.32 (324.6 bb)
      CO: $40.72 (81.4 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $53.48 (107 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with 4:spade: A:club:
      2 folds, CO raises to $1.25, Hero raises to $4, SB folds, BB calls $3.50, CO folds

      Flop: ($9.50) A:spade: 8:heart: 3:heart: (2 players)
      BB bets $7, Hero calls $7

      Turn: ($23.50) A:heart: (2 players)
      BB bets $39.01 and is all-in, Hero :f_o:
  • 3 replies
    • Desultory
      Joined: 06.02.2013 Posts: 127
      I think there are plenty of better hands than A4o to put into your 3bet range especially if BB is likely to cold call. So I just fold pre.

      Its hard to get in the mind of a recreational player.
      I've seen this type of strange donk donk allin line with pure air hands, but I'm not sure how common it is and he reps no bluffs.

      Whats the dynamic at the table? If you 3bet A4o v co, then you probably been 3betting the cutoff a lot right? If recreational player has been at the table while you have been doing this then he may become frustrated and do complete spaz things like this line vs your 3bet. Therefore I call river shove.

      If you just joined the table and there is no dynamic or you haven't 3bet yet, I assume this is some strangely played turned flush,AQ,AJ,AT type hand and I fold.

      I'm not overly happy about either, and this is mainly why I don't 3bet A4o, because the only time we hit anything (top pair weak kicker), we are often put in a difficult spot with it.
    • Lunitis
      Joined: 22.02.2009 Posts: 20,131
      I cant recall now, HM say i played that table with 18% 3bet in 133 hands.
      Donkey folds 58% vs cbet in 3bet pot.
      What hands will you put ahead AXo here?
      I have seen lost of videos, most of people say that its kinda bad to 3bet AXo, but from my results they work well.
    • Desultory
      Joined: 06.02.2013 Posts: 127
      I think folding is almost certainly best on average unless I had notes on the guy that he is spazzy aggro(ie noted that he overbet air before). There are definitely recreational players at these levels, who just bet bet with nothing, but they don't last very long for obvious reasons.

      Given you have 1.5k hands on him, I would doubt he is one of these types. I didn't notice this 1.5k hands before my first response.

      18% is high enough to piss people off and provoke spaz though.

      I'm just basically unsure of what he has and when I'm unsure, I usually go for the fold button. I think you probably made a good disciplined fold here.

      Axo has a blocker card to the AK,AQ hands so in that respect, you will come up against less AK hands after 3betting Ax in comparison with 76s.
      Equity wise Axo is > than stuff like 76s but that is assuming you reach showdown.

      After being called pre flop, when you do hit the A on the flop you will actually be behind his flop calling range because his calling range will dominate your hand. There are also more Ax hands than there are SC hands, and if you are 3betting all your Ax hands thats probably why your 3bet is up at 18%. Against better players - they will realise this and you will be easy to play post flop. At this level you can probably get away with it.

      There is much discussion about what hands are best for 3betting. You can pretty much 3bet any air hands you want and your right, Ax is probably ok especially at this level. I definitely wouldn't 3bet all of them though. Its just my preference to have 86s, 54s, A2s type hands in my 3bet range instead as they hit flush draws and more disguised 2pairs too.