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I'm a loser!!!!

    • racenutalways
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 179
      I read about downswings everywhere, we all have em, everyone talks about bad beats. It's part of the game, we all know that. And is acceptable. But the advice of "keep at it, you'll win over the long run" isn't helping me none whatsoever.

      I've ran good for 8 months, generating a good sized BR in NL5 at the IPoker network. Thinking it's time to move up limit, but not knowing what to expect, plus the fact that NL5 at IPoker is quite tight. I decided to take advantage of the starting capital and try my hand at Full Tilt NL10. Way loose here. What a mistake. Bad beats, sure, lots of them, but I put my chips in when I have the best of it, that will never change. SSS got my raises called by deep stacks with junk hands, and lost 90% of the time. Went back to playing with full stack and th results aren't any better. Full house, not good enuff to win. Flopping sets is a curse, whether holding QQ or 22, they lose big pots and win small ones.
      AA is the only hand generating any sizable wins. KK is finally picking up, Draws just don't happen. Raising pre flop only excites the donks, rather then narrowing down the field.
      My hand range was always in the 30%VP$iP area, now it's down to 15%, the cards are that bad. I miss the flop 98% of the time. T'il cards warm up, I am playing quite passively, and rightly so when the cards run this cold. Otherwise, BR would have been depleted by now.

      When you have a BR of 20 buy ins, it's easy to keep blasting away, you'll win eventually, but with starting with 5 buy-ins, you're at the mercy of "Lady Luck", who, I think hates me.

      Playing a Tight Aggressive game, and only placing your chips in the pot when you have the best of it, isn't going so well.

      Playing passively, yup, whimpy, doesn't make for a fun game, but it surely minimizes my losses. I watch every hand carefully, the ones I chose to fold pre-flop such as AJ, AQ (<---those 2 hands are my biggest generators of net losses followed closely by AKs, AKo, does ok, however.) or KQs would have depleted my BR by now as they just refuse to win a hand. GRRRR!!!!!!

      I only raise preflop with AA or KK, that is it. AK hits 50% of the time? So placing extra chips pre flop, makes no sense to me. Not at the lowest limit, that's for sure. And, not when the cards are cold.

      Any pearls of wisdom out there???
  • 14 replies
    • p0kerQT
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 1,300
      30% vpip is way too loose, even with "good cards" 15% is even too high I think if you're playing SSS.
      Anyone can b a winner at poker you just need to be patient, disciplined.. spend time reading the articles on here to train yourself. Have a break from the game if its stressing you out. Don't become passive, its not a good idea to play poker if you're scared of losing money, play your best game and look for ways to improve, post hands etc.
    • Tosh5457
      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 3,062
      To play on NL5 I assume you're playing BSS. You should follow the SHC and play according to it. I had problems like you on NL5, most players never fold, it's fustrating but it's actually EV+. If you don't hit the flop and you know he won't fold to your cbet you can just check/fold, if you hit he won't fold to your cbet so you can make value bets down to the river.

      Don't change the way you play just because you're losing, it's mentioned in many articles and posts. Aggressive poker is winning poker, not playing hands or playing them passively because you "know" they won't hit the flop won't work and will make you lose money.

      You're probably on a downswing, but don't blame the bad luck you're having, blame your own game and do something to improve it. Post hands on the forums, watch videos, go to coachings. Also you shouldn't evaluate your stats but rather how you play the hands, stats just give a general idea of how you're playing, they won't point you the leaks on your game.

      Just follow the SHC and play according to the strategy, changing the way you play it's just bad. And by the way, are you using bankroll management? It's the most important thing.
    • NiekamNeidomu
      Joined: 29.05.2007 Posts: 307
      Well first of all he said that he plays with 5 buy ins..starting capital = 50$ so .. you play nl 10 with 5 buy ins? ;d i remember i lost 17 buy in's in 3 days.. without tilting..
      to tell the truth.. i got broke first time when i started to play poker( 50+100$ bonus) i made up to 230$ and lost it all in 10days when playng sss...
      in a fact..there is about 5% chance to go broke if you play perfect.. but we dont play perfect ! (you can play SSS Perfect ,couse with SSS most of the time you r prevented from hard decisions.. but there is no perfect play in BSS becouse of "human factor".. and yes when you play full ring games.. with 30% of the cards.. the other players may seam to you "TIGHT"
      couse you play way to lose.. other players c that.. and you just a random fish for they donk in most of your hands..couse they dont believe you have anything.. ( ok my mistake..most of them donk's anyways couse they r stupid T_T )
      about your post name..
      you know why you r loser? couse you called your self one.. When you start to call your self a loser.. you eventually become one.. and not becouse you get bad beats.. unlucky "cards" (dont believe in luck.. at all.. luck is a bitch..and im about to use her ..couse we create our own luck.. ;p) it's becouse of your subconsciousness..and the way you think... if you wont change the way you think.. every time you will trie to stand up with your head up high.. you eventualy end up like a loser.. only becouse you think so..or blame any1 or anything..

      and last thing.. go reread all articles.. so many times.. as much you need it..visit coaching's..stick up to bank roll managment.. and if you If you wont succeed then, you don't have any patience. And if you don't have any patience.. you're probably becoming a sucker already...(those word's helped me.. lets hope it will hope some1 else to...)
    • Zenith88
      Joined: 12.07.2008 Posts: 65
      after a downswing of almost half my bankroll last two days, i have to admit that it's frustrating when after a reraise pf you still find people with 9Ts
    • racenutalways
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 179
      The title "I'm loser" is a representation of my downswing. I am posting some more hands in the forum. Take a look and tell me that I am donkey. We all know that the beginners at the NL5 or NL10 will call with junk. Seeing the flop, then making a decision would be better way to go when you lose 80% of your sessions holding premiums.

      You can review these hands here>I'm a loser!!
    • Gerv
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      I suggest you rename your Title as I'm a loser sounds a little bit degenerating and it decreases your motivation.

      Try to attend some coachings of BSS and have a small peek at how they play on their limit. Or watch a friend playing via Teamviewer and such.

      I should also suggest reading the BankRoll Management articles FIRST and then decide what you want to play.
      SSS VP$IP must be under 11% otherwise you are a laggy shortie..

      I hope this helps and good luck regaining your capital ;)
    • xylere
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      + for changing the title) make it "I am a (future) winner!!!" :)
      Otherwise, Articles, Videos, coachings and Sample boards
    • racenutalways
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 179
      Thanx for the feedback. First, I read and re-read and re-read articles from everywhere and anywhere. I have been playing NL5 for about 8 months. SHC, I know which hand is to be played and when. My confusion is based upon the difference in luck, comparing NL5 to NL10. For some reason, everytime I play NL10, I lose money holding Ks, always Ks. WHY?

      6 times in the past 3 days I ran into Aces, twice today against the same player. What are the odds of facing AA when holding KK? In NL5, they make a killing, they actually hold up HH and in multiways as well, but, not NL10. I am totally trying to find an answer to this and I have researched extensively. Do not assume I am a beginner, I am not. Far from being a pro and have lots to learn. I come here for guidance.

      This is how KK is performing when they are played aggressively Pre-flop. (NL10)

      17480 hands
      dealt Ks 71 times
      -10.66BB/hand <-----I hate seeing red in my stats LOL!!!

      When I limp holding KK, my losses are minimal, my winnings aren't very big, but heck, I am not winning with them aggressively at this limit. There are two things that happen when you raise with KK at these limits, no one calls, or you get re-raised and lose your stack. Not to mention the set miners that think any pair at any price is good enough to call, and hit. I can't hit sets as often as they do. LOL!!!!

      Everytime I lose for a short period, I review all hands lost to see if I would have won played differentely. Downswings are usually caused by bad play, I realize this and I plug up as many leaks as I can find. I'll never stop hunting for those leaks, I assure you.

      Do I still play these Ks aggressively??? "Oh, he must be playing them wrong, what a donkey" and suggest reading the same articles I have read many times over in the last 4 weeks is not the answer here. Those articles do not talk about when you are losing no matter what happens at the tables. And to keep playing them aggressively is the only advice I keep reading, that advice is killing my BR. You can review some of my hands that I posted here--->I'm a loser!!.

      Regarding BMR, yes I have more then enough buy ins. Not just at one site, one site is better at certain times then others. I was referring to the 50$ starting capital and playing at the lowest limit at Full Tilt.

      I babbled on and on enough LOL!!! I do NOT know what to do about this misfortune I have been given in the last 4 weeks.
    • masfe
      Joined: 27.01.2007 Posts: 3,319
      Of course you do. I'm down with AA over 7k hands too in FL and i still play them agressively

      That's probably variance
    • NRGBlaze
      Joined: 08.06.2008 Posts: 604
      My friend I see that you suffered many bad beats, but think about something else. You're posting the hands that you lose with. Sure, there are and there will be many losing hands no matter how certain you are in your hand. Just stop noticing them and move on. Think about the hand that you lost with and if you played right just say NH to the sucker that beat you and continue playing. Maybe next hand/next day/next week you will face the same player again and he will still play like that (but he won't be that lucky every time). So get yourself together and start being a winning player - tilts don't help anyone.
      Good luck/ Play well
      And see you at the tables
      :spade: :heart: :diamond: :club:
    • PocketAcesJohn
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,120
      "...playing passivley isnt fun, but its minimizing my losses"

      would you rather have smaller varrience and smaller profit


      bigger varrience and larger profit?

      you shouldnt change the way you play esspecilly when on a downswing!
      long term your lossing positive expectatiion...and if you play to passivley you may not win enough when things are going well to compensate for your losses when things arnt going well.
    • Grimzor
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 421
      You wanna find leaks? well limping KK is a big one imo. So you suffered a couple bad beats with KK, what now? Not play KK any more? You know that mathematically its still the same, it is still winning hand in most cases. Mathematically no hand is unbeatable and you sometimes have to loose with KK. And you did. Try to forget it and play correct mathematical, +EV game not game based on your past.

      If you want to play passively to reduce losses it means you are not comfortable in said limit. Move down a limit. Playing while being scared is very very very bad. So lets say you have a set of Kings and there is flush draw on board. You might be scared to bet out for protection and give correct odds to opponent. Dont be sorry then that you lost. Its things like that why you shouldnt play limit in which tyou are totally scared to loose some pots
    • Reverand221
      Joined: 24.02.2008 Posts: 264
      first, holdem is an equity game, you put money in the pot, if you are most likely ahead against the opponent's hand range. that can change from street to street!
      second, often the metagame is important too. so, playing aggressively means here to hold initiative, which is a strong metagame aspect. In many spots, you don't hit, it is profitable because of implied odds (sometimes you hit later streets) and fold equity (you represent a strong hand).

      how do you implement those points into your gameplay?
      - play tight (vpip ~ 20, in no limit holdem probably way far under 20, im not sure, i play fixed limit, depends also on your table - FR or SH, opponents tight or loose...).
      - play aggressively (put money in, when you are most likely ahead and hold initiative, if it is the right spot. don't slowplay.)
      - develop a resistance against tilting. the harder and more often your bad beats appear, the more you are sitting at the right tables. these are the games you are searching for and where your tight aggressive gameplay works out with the best winrates, but you have to stick to the play. if you get weak, you loose money. if your KK get beaten by 32o, laugh about the guy in your mind, because you know, that he will loose his money to you longterm.
      - stick to brm, i mean, you see for yourself, that the variance is hitting your KK statistics. only brm can save you from going broke.

      hm, if i remember correctly, that's exactly, what pokerstrategy is sermoning 24/7. :) if you dont stick to it, you will be a loosing player.

      limping KK is a big mistake, because you are always a favourite against the opponent's hand range. if you limp, you miss value. naturally, the most value (profit) comes from your strongest hands. so, keep limping KK, keep losing money... especially in no limit holdem limping KK is even bigger mistake than in limit holdem. the no limit pots grow exponentially, if you play aggressively. so, limping makes it harder getting your money in early.

      btw, if you play the lowest micro limit on any site, the games are never tight.

      reread articles over and over again, pay attention to the example calculations and formulas. if you really understood the concepts, you would have never come to statements like "limping KK minimizes my losses", because it negates your winnings too...

      if you dont like mathematics and sticking to a strategy, poker is not the right game for you. it's not about owning a table in a specific session. even the biggest fish will suck you out hard from time to time. we own the tables long term.

      hm, you say, if you raise KK, everybody folds, why is that a problem for you? you win the pot, better than limping and letting a fish play a shit hand and suck you out... put your winrate in relation to the potsizes and you will see, that winning the blinds is a big contribution to your winrate! the blinds are actually the reason, why you are playing hands worse than AA!
    • racenutalways
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 179
      First I want to thank all of you for taking time out to re-assure me that I'm not going crazy or just a bad overall player. I've made mistakes, and will probably make more, that's part of learning.
      Bad beats and suckouts happen often in micro limits. Is how we deal with it is key. Need to remind my brain of that before during and after each session.
      Also need to get accustomed to higher variance, it seems, thanx for pointing that out.

      Again, I want to thank all of you that took the time out of their busy lives to reply to my whinning.

      You guys rawk!!!!