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Equity needed to value bet turn vs 2 players

• Bronze
Joined: 22.02.2009
Hi.
Excluding other factors (like \$ made if check and villains bet for bluff or money lost due to villain raising worst hands and we folding) i know that we need at least 51% equity for a value bet to be profitable against the vilain calling/raising range.
But what if im 3 way?
I need 51% equity vs villains range too? Or i need just 34%? Or something in the between that we cant calculate exactly? I guess the last one...(?!)
If just one call i need 51%, if both call i need 34%. But as we cant know (can we?) if one or both will call we cant estimate the exact equity we need...
First time im thinking about this subject, i dont know if im saying nonsense things..

This subject arise when i was evaluating if i should or not cbet this turn against two players with the given call/raise range:

If im HU i should cbet:

Board: J T 4  9
Equity  Vencer  Empate
MP2    52.22%  52.22%   0.00% { AA }
MP3    47.78%  47.78%   0.00% { 44, AQs-AJs, KJs+, QJs, JTs, 98s, AQo-AJo, KJo+, QJo }

But 3 way my equity drops a lot and i guess we have to check/fold:

Board: J T 4  9
Equity  Vencer  Empate
MP2    29.20%  29.20%   0.00% { AA }
MP3    35.40%  31.45%   3.95% { 44, AQs-AJs, KJs+, QJs, JTs, 98s, AQo-AJo, KJo+, QJo }
CO     35.40%  31.45%   3.95% { 44, AQs-AJs, KJs+, QJs, JTs, 98s, AQo-AJo, KJo+, QJo }

Lets give as QQ, things get a bit weird now...

Board: J T 4  9
Equity  Vencer  Empate
MP2    46.32%  43.38%   2.94% { QQ }
MP3    26.84%  24.31%   2.53% { 44, AQs-AJs, KJs+, QJs, JTs, 98s, AQo-AJo, KJo+, QJo }
CO     26.84%  24.31%   2.53% { 44, AQs-AJs, KJs+, QJs, JTs, 98s, AQo-AJo, KJo+, QJo }

• 2 replies
• Coach
Coach
Joined: 03.08.2009
Originally posted by Lunitis

I need 51% equity vs villains range too? Or i need just 34%? Or something in the between that we cant calculate exactly? I guess the last one...(?!)
Yeah, the last one.

Ultimately you don't know how many opponents are going to call you. Rarely can you ever be sure that 2 or more opponents will call.

So in practice, if you think that either of the opponents will not call with a range that has less than 50% equity vs you, you shouldn't really be value betting.

Another factor to keep in mind is that when you value bet and get called by 2 opponents you usually have less equity anyway, even if you might have had 51% equity HU against each opponent. The only time that isn't true is when opponents have the same draw/hand and are blocking each others outs - something again that you can never know.
• Bronze
Joined: 22.02.2009
Thank you very much. Great answer.