[NL20-NL50] A3o 4bet

    • mlatasrb
      mlatasrb
      Gold
      Joined: 01.04.2012 Posts: 2,720
      iPoker - $0.20 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: 100 BB
      UTG: 110.3 BB
      MP: 47.4 BB
      CO: 93.5 BB
      Hero (BTN): 102.5 BB
      SB: 124.6 BB

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:diamond: 3:heart:

      fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2 BB, fold, BB raises to 8 BB, Hero raises to 17 BB, fold

      Hero shows A:diamond: 3:heart: ()
      Hero wins 16.5 BB


      527 hands, 23/19 3bet from bb 15, against BU 19. fold to 4bet 6/7 times

      Is it ok to 4bet with a blocker, and he 3bets wide, and folds so often to 4bet. I mostly look these two stats when I decide if I 4bet or fold.
  • 5 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Hi,

      Hand selection is good ofc. There is no difference between A3o and A8s in blockers actually (unless your opponent 3bet/5bets certain pairs). The only difference is the frequency you get each of them. You get A3o 0.9% of the time or so, while you get a hand like A3s only 0.4% of the time. This means that when you 4bet an offsuit hand, your frequency increase over 2x than when you 4bet a suited variant of the hand.
    • mlatasrb
      mlatasrb
      Gold
      Joined: 01.04.2012 Posts: 2,720
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Hi,

      Hand selection is good ofc. There is no difference between A3o and A8s in blockers actually (unless your opponent 3bet/5bets certain pairs). The only difference is the frequency you get each of them. You get A3o 0.9% of the time or so, while you get a hand like A3s only 0.4% of the time. This means that when you 4bet an offsuit hand, your frequency increase over 2x than when you 4bet a suited variant of the hand.
      I am not sure if I understood your explanation about 4bet frequency, and difference between A3s, and A3o. I am not 4betting always with A3s, or having my standard 4bet range against each opponent, but I 4bet here because he folds so much to 4bet and has wide 3bet range. So I would 4bet here even a hand 5To since it is very probable that he folds.
      If he would 3bet e.g 3% I would fold even AK, so just wanted to say, I dont see why would I 4bet with standard 4bet range.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      I didn't mean standard against anyone, I meant 'standard' against this one opponent that 4bets a lot. Either you are very aware of the dynamics and history or you construct a certain frequency using actual holdings. I just gave you the frequency of each holding.

      In other words, if you 4bet all thos hands, all the time you will have just a huge 4bet frequency that will be instantly noticed and more likely to get played back at.
    • mlatasrb
      mlatasrb
      Gold
      Joined: 01.04.2012 Posts: 2,720
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      I didn't mean standard against anyone, I meant 'standard' against this one opponent that 4bets a lot. Either you are very aware of the dynamics and history or you construct a certain frequency using actual holdings. I just gave you the frequency of each holding.

      In other words, if you 4bet all thos hands, all the time you will have just a huge 4bet frequency that will be instantly noticed and more likely to get played back at.
      Ok, now I got your point, so far I was not paying much attention to the frequency of my 4bet but just the stats which I mentioned.
      Would it be also ok to 4bet this opponent who 4bets so much until I face resistance? And when I notice that he 5bet light, I can wait for value 4bet hands and make profite again. Because I suppouse that in speed poker with 200 people, if he is regg and plays 3-4 tables, he might even not notice what I am doing? My 4bet will not be huge, because I 4bet only against specific opponents who are suitable and mayority of players are not suitable for 4bet like this guy.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      In Fast Fold I would usually just use the frequency. When restarting Fast Fold after a long break was when I looked a lot more into this.

      Regarding your question, if you 4bet him a lot there are 2 adjustments he can make actually so it's hard for you to realise which one he is actually doing:

      1) 5bet quite a bit more and thus change his 3betting range to contain more 3bet/5bet hands (whether bluffs or light for value we cannot know)

      2) 3bet way less and naturally 3bet/5bet with a higher frequency and fold less to 4bets.

      Both times he 5bets you a lot but with different ranges. Now, ofc if you have few hands with him his 3bet stat will change but if you have many hands with him his 3bet will remain the same. Also, his 3bet is an average against everyone so you again do not know if it's against you or someone else. That's why in FFG I prefer paying attention to my frequencies first and just slowly add more value or bluff when I find a spot but not abuse it too much because I want my opponents to not change. The whole point of fast poker is to exploit edges really really often. You cannot find immense edges like on normal ring games when you can change your game from one hand to another. In FF it takes more time to put in hands with same players.