Bankroll

    • BigBenMee
      BigBenMee
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2012 Posts: 75
      What bankroll management do people use for sit and go's? I know it says 50 x in the strategy but that seems a bit over the top? I play a mix of 9 to 180 man sit and go's, and chuck in the odd mtt to take a shot when I fancy it.

      I've been using a rule of I must have 30 buy in's before i play a stake, is this enough?
  • 7 replies
    • maythany
      maythany
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.10.2011 Posts: 1,189
      I multi-table so I have 100+ buy-ins for my stake level. I experienced a very long downward trend a few days ago and overall I lost 30 buy-ins.

      I play 6 max so the swings are a lot greater than 9 max so I'm sure 50 buy-ins is alright but for 180 mans I would recommend a larger bankroll. I read somewhere (I forgot) that 200 buy-ins is recommended for 180s.

      Take Care,

      Maythany
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 5,877
      More aggressive brm is fine for low stake stt games. For brm one vital question is can we take risk of going broke? For someone who have moved up in stakes and build nice bankroll or is playing for living I would recommend to have minimum of 100bin to current stake. For me it's more like 200+ these days, but main point is that I don't want downswings affect my game or at least minimize that. Also I don't want to play in bigger games without decent table selection.

      Personally I used "50/30" rule in early times of stt games. So move up after having 50 bin for next stake and down when having less than 30 bin to current stake. If you want to use more aggressive brm just understand that going broke is decent possibility. Especially if you have problems to move to smaller games if necessary.

      Bigger the fields more variance there will be so 200+ is good for 180man imo.
    • BigBenMee
      BigBenMee
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2012 Posts: 75
      Thanks for the reply. It just seemed to be a massive amount of buyins when the longest run I have had without cashing is about 6 games. But I guess I havn't hit a proper downswing yet lol.
    • BigBenMee
      BigBenMee
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2012 Posts: 75
      Aswel, is it ok to take a shot? For example if I am playing $1.50 45 man sit and go's, but one day decide to play a $4.50 180 man as a one of to try and win the $200 prize. Is this against bankroll management or is it ok every now and then?
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 5,877
      Well if these shots are happening rarely it doesn't matter that much.

      For me longer no cash streak has been 18games in stt. So if we talk of game like 180man there will be much longer streaks in long run.

      Also if you don't see refunding your account as problem then brm is not huge deal at start. But understanding it's importance when bankrolll starts to get bigger is crucial.
    • BigBenMee
      BigBenMee
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2012 Posts: 75
      Well I like to try my look at the pokerstars Bigger $5.50 tournament on a Sunday when I'm not working lol!.

      I'd ideally rather not rebuy again if possible, so I might play 50 buy in rule for, and maybe go to a 100 when i reach the stage when i can play $10 tournaments. Or can I leave it later than that?
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      If you look up the biggest winners in low stakes 180 player SNGs using Sharkscope, you will find that they frequently have 50 buy-in downswings, and occasionally have 100 buy-in downswings.

      You did not say your skill level. However, this is critical information. Marginal winners will see larger downswings more often than solid winners. If you are a breakeven or losing player, a large number of buy-ins would not make you safe. If you do not know whether you are a winning player (and it is hard to know without a huge sample or careful analysis by a coach), then you need to budget an amount you can lose, not manage a bankroll.

      There are many rules of thumb people will happily give you without knowing enough information. It's kind of like guessing that your shoe size is 5. Maybe a lucky guess will fit you perfectly. However, if it's important for you to get it right, then you need to use information such as your win rate, your playing style, the size of tournaments in which you play, and how much of a problem it is if you run out of money.

      Typically, the favorite numbers of buy-ins people guess for cash games tend to be conservative for solid winners in low stakes cash games, while the favorite numbers people offer would tend to be dangerously aggressive for expert low stakes MTT players. Part of the problem is that the word "buy-in" is the same for cash games and tournaments, and people take the idea that 50 buy-ins might work for cash games and assume that it was a safe recommendation for tournaments. In fact, it's much easier to blow through a MTT buy-in than a cash game buy-in, and expert players tend to need more tournament buy-ins. You can see that in the Sharkscope graphs I mentioned above. The same number of buy-ins which might give a cash game player a few percent chance to go broke might only let a MTT player survive 50% of the time.

      For a more detailed discussion of bankroll management including a simple formula which allows you to compare different types of poker and different stake levels, see the book I wrote with Collin Moshman, The Math of Hold'em.