Hello world! gonepoker's thread

    • gonepoker
      gonepoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 438
      Hello everyone, welcome to 6max bot camp :D

      first of all I would like to tell that I'm very happy to be here! Thanks for all people involved in such a nice project!

      Little bit about me:
      My name is Andrius, I'm from Lithuania. I was supposed to be electricity engineer but somehow I found myself being poker pro:D
      At the the moment I play 100NL HE, sometimes mix it with some 200NL tables when I see juicy one or just have lack of good tables :)
      Started playing poker in 2009 as a freerolling fish. Made of conclusion that it's game of skill BY MYSELF (very proud about this:D ) and quickly found pokerstrategy.com (how come they appeared in first google page when "poker strategy" was entered? :f_eek:
      So it basically turned me into winning micro limits SNG player. But I got bored quite fast - wanted something more challenging and that's how I arrived to cash games. Oh these games looked tougher but giving more satisfaction at the same time. Also more freedom.

      Goals change as time goes by. I had many different goals in my career. Some of them were realistic, some of them weren't. I learned to try to set realistic goals.
      So I'm not dreaming playing 10k NL anymore.

      *My monthly goal is to play at least 100k hands.
      *Long term goal to crush at least 400NL (600NL would also be pretty good :) . I would feel very happy about my poker career if I could accomplish this.

      Things I noticed I struggle with:
      *Aggression - sometimes I lack of aggression in spots I should be aggressive and sometimes I'm aggressive in spots I shouldn't be (I don't recognize them very well)
      *Might have balance leaks
      *Sometimes I find myself stuck in 3bet pots (and its connected with aggression issue)
      *Folding too much to 3bets (connected with leak above, probably have fear to make mistakes in big pots)
      *Probably have ton other leaks I'm not aware of:D

      So I have various expectations about the boot camp:)
      First of all I think it will bump motivation to work on our games. We will get to know each other and will work together as a group and since we will be similar level players we will need to work on similar problems of our game.
      Also since we will work with truly experienced coaches & players I think many our leaks will be found and destroyed!

      Thanks for reading and GL!
  • 23 replies
    • gonepoker
      gonepoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 438
      Forgot to tell about my psychology leaks:

      *Hard to come back to grinding schedule after longer breaks (2 days+). (Result - playing a lot less hands than I should)
      *Sometimes I switch to autopilot - stop thinking about small pots which leads to losing them (hands gets to showdown and I see I should have bluffed him out), also folding too much to 3bets
      *Money effect - when I see how much I win/lose it effects my game. I almost don't track my daily winnings/losings anymore so its partly solved but still I would like to become stronger at this.
    • Desultory
      Desultory
      Basic
      Joined: 06.02.2013 Posts: 127
      Welcome Andrius.

      Originally posted by gonepoker
      I was supposed to be electricity engineer but somehow I found myself being poker pro:D
      Interesting. I did Electronics at A-Level over here in England so maybe there is something about this field that applies to playing poker well!?

      Originally posted by gonepokerquickly found pokerstrategy.com (how come they appeared in first google page when "poker strategy" was entered?
      Probably because Pokerstrategy is the biggest coaching site in the wooorld!

      Originally posted by gonepoker
      So it basically turned me into winning micro limits SNG player. But I got bored quite fast - wanted something more challenging and that's how I arrived to cash games. Oh these games looked tougher but giving more satisfaction at the same time. Also more freedom.
      I also moved from SNG's to cash games. Cash games are certainly more dynamic. Less obvious mathematical decisions like in SNG's and more play options.

      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Goals change as time goes by. I had many different goals in my career. Some of them were realistic, some of them weren't. I learned to try to set realistic goals.
      So I'm not dreaming playing 10k NL anymore.
      I am a firm believer that if any man has done something then anyone else is capable of doing it. Its just a factor of lots of hard work and determination so don't give up on your 10K NL dream just yet. Not many people are bankrolled for 10K NL though so it could take a little while. :)

      Originally posted by gonepoker
      *My monthly goal is to play at least 100k hands.
      *Long term goal to crush at least 400NL (600NL would also be pretty good :) . I would feel very happy about my poker career if I could accomplish this.
      You will need to be playing 12 tables at 5 hours a day every day during the month to play 100k hands in a month. What do you define as 'crush' in bb/100? Because personally I think 'crushing' is a myth that only happens in the shorter term, but what short term means is arguable. I have achieved 2.87bb/100 @ 600NL & 3.62bb/100 @ 400NL over approx 780,000 hands.

      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Things I noticed I struggle with:
      *Aggression - sometimes I lack of aggression in spots I should be aggressive and sometimes I'm aggressive in spots I shouldn't be (I don't recognize them very well)
      *Might have balance leaks
      *Sometimes I find myself stuck in 3bet pots (and its connected with aggression issue)
      *Probably have ton other leaks I'm not aware of:D
      Just because someone called you down with a hand you didn't expect doesn't necessaries mean you were incorrect to try and be aggressive in that spot. Experience of when to be aggro or not is something that will come with watching videos/posting hand histroies.
      Balance is largely a myth IMO. No one is truely balanced and if they were, I doubt they would make much money long term. Most of our money comes from being exploitative.
      Stuck in what way? Facing barrels or 3betting and deciding to barrel? Maybe you 3bet too much? If not, maybe we need to teach you that it is ok to give up in spots :) You don't have to overcommit and 3barrel just because you 3bet. Post a few hands and your stats in regards to this and I will try to help you.

      Originally posted by gonepoker
      First of all I think it will bump motivation to work on our games. We will get to know each other and will work together as a group and since we will be similar level players we will need to work on similar problems of our game.
      Also since we will work with truly experienced coaches & players who so I think many our leaks will be found and destroyed!
      I agree and I look forward to the experience.
    • Desultory
      Desultory
      Basic
      Joined: 06.02.2013 Posts: 127
      Originally posted by gonepoker
      *Hard to come back to grinding schedule after longer breaks (2 days+). (Result - playing a lot less hands than I should)
      *Sometimes I switch to autopilot - stop thinking about small pots which leads to losing them (hands gets to showdown and I see I should have bluffed him out), also folding too much to 3bets
      *Money effect - when I see how much I win/lose it effects my game. I almost don't track my daily winnings/losings anymore so its partly solved but still I would like to become stronger at this.
      1)I get this too. My solution; play less hours each day but play every day or only have 1 day off. The great thing about being a poker pro is we have the option of being super flexible.
      2)It sounds like you are playing too many tables. The more tables you play the more this will happen. Nothing you can do about it apart from trying to decrease to less tables until you are more experienced/find it easier to make these decisions quickly.
      3)Everyone gets this. You have to be bankrolled, and train yourself to only look at longer term results. I.e. 100khands+ (in your case end of the month). Even after 100khands though, variance is massive so having a hard skin is useful. Having enough in your poker account so you don't have to keep depositing helps as well as that has negative psychological impacts on ones play.
    • gonepoker
      gonepoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 438
      Hey Desultory :)

      Thanks for ultra fast and nice response - I even didn't have enough time to fix my spelling errors :D

      You will need to be playing 12 tables at 5 hours a day every day during the month to play 100k hands in a month. What do you define as 'crush' in bb/100? Because personally I think 'crushing' is a myth that only happens in the shorter term, but what short term means is arguable. I have achieved 2.87bb/100 @ 600NL & 3.62bb/100 @ 400NL over approx 780,000 hands.


      I don't have any problems in putting volume - actually I already did 100k+ several times and I play only 6-7 tables;)
      Crushing wasn't correct word,I guess there should be "beating" instead:) Exactly what you did!

      Stuck in what way? Facing barrels or 3betting and deciding to barrel? Maybe you 3bet too much? If not, maybe we need to teach you that it is ok to give up in spots smile You don't have to overcommit and 3barrel just because you 3bet. Post a few hands and your stats in regards to this and I will try to help you.

      Probably mostly facing barrels and deciding to go for two or three barrels...
    • Desultory
      Desultory
      Basic
      Joined: 06.02.2013 Posts: 127
      You must play a lot of hours to do 100k+with 6-7 tables?

      Originally posted by gonepokerProbably mostly facing barrels and deciding to go for two or three barrels...
      Oook. These are the most dynamic and therefore most difficult things in poker so it makes sense that you are struggling more with them than other things. Especially coming from a SNG background (where you almost never play post flop deep).

      If you are willing I would suggest posting a screenshot your stats(From Holdemanager or Pokertracker). Ideally all of your stats, but most impotantly stats related to the above ^

      And if you have a few hand histories that illustrate your problems. Feel free to just post them into this thread and we will give you as much help as we can.
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Forgot to tell about my psychology leaks:

      *Hard to come back to grinding schedule after longer breaks (2 days+). (Result - playing a lot less hands than I should)
      *Sometimes I switch to autopilot - stop thinking about small pots which leads to losing them (hands gets to showdown and I see I should have bluffed him out), also folding too much to 3bets
      *Money effect - when I see how much I win/lose it effects my game. I almost don't track my daily winnings/losings anymore so its partly solved but still I would like to become stronger at this.
      Hey!

      My name is Erik and I will be part of the coaching staff focusing on Tilt, A-Game, Mindset, and Lifecoaching. So if you have any questions I will have a thread up soon where you can easily let me know if you updated your thread with anything I might be able to help out with. I'll be trolling around the forums but just so i don't miss anything.:)

      Ok, let's look a bit on the above issues you are struggling with.

      1. Is there usually a reason for why you take a break 2 or more days? Big losing session etc...
      2. Why do you think that you start to autopilot in small pots? What would fit here? Even if it is illogical there is always a logical answer to why we behave in certain ways in certain situations.
      3. I would like to call this results-orientation. Since you have come a bit on the way of resolving this issue, what do you feel is the the thing that is holding you back the most from not watching the results? In what situations do you still feel the most urge to check the results?

      *Can you see how all three of your issues have the same core issue? Can you see any patters?

      GL with he grind! Any questions just fire away!

      Cheers!
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Good luck with this buddy :)
    • gonepoker
      gonepoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 438
      Originally posted by Desultory
      You must play a lot of hours to do 100k+with 6-7 tables?

      Originally posted by gonepokerProbably mostly facing barrels and deciding to go for two or three barrels...
      Oook. These are the most dynamic and therefore most difficult things in poker so it makes sense that you are struggling more with them than other things. Especially coming from a SNG background (where you almost never play post flop deep).

      If you are willing I would suggest posting a screenshot your stats(From Holdemanager or Pokertracker). Ideally all of your stats, but most impotantly stats related to the above ^

      And if you have a few hand histories that illustrate your problems. Feel free to just post them into this thread and we will give you as much help as we can.
      Hey,
      Yeah I play a lot of hours since I don't feel like I have big enough edge to play profitably more tables (even playing 6-7 tables my profitability is marginal). Also I try to see every bigger pot which went to showdown so I could make a note (probably couldn't do the same playing 10+tables).
      But maybe it's a leak to play such a small number of tables?:D

      And obviously I am willing to post stats :f_love:
      These are all filtered for last 3 months!

      Overall



      Overall + called 3bet filter



      Position

      Probably winning too little in late position ->might be connected with folding too much to 3bets

      Position+ did 3bet = true filter



      Pre flop

      Probably losing because folding too much to 3bets, again

      Flop hand strength

      Might be overplaying TPNK?

      Stack size

      Seems not playing good with 150bb+ stack

      Cbet success


      So much screenshots - I already feel sorry for you Desultory :(
      Thanks for helping me!
    • gonepoker
      gonepoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 438
      Originally posted by ErikStenqvist
      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Forgot to tell about my psychology leaks:

      *Hard to come back to grinding schedule after longer breaks (2 days+). (Result - playing a lot less hands than I should)
      *Sometimes I switch to autopilot - stop thinking about small pots which leads to losing them (hands gets to showdown and I see I should have bluffed him out), also folding too much to 3bets
      *Money effect - when I see how much I win/lose it effects my game. I almost don't track my daily winnings/losings anymore so its partly solved but still I would like to become stronger at this.
      Hey!

      My name is Erik and I will be part of the coaching staff focusing on Tilt, A-Game, Mindset, and Lifecoaching. So if you have any questions I will have a thread up soon where you can easily let me know if you updated your thread with anything I might be able to help out with. I'll be trolling around the forums but just so i don't miss anything.:)

      Ok, let's look a bit on the above issues you are struggling with.

      1. Is there usually a reason for why you take a break 2 or more days? Big losing session etc...
      2. Why do you think that you start to autopilot in small pots? What would fit here? Even if it is illogical there is always a logical answer to why we behave in certain ways in certain situations.
      3. I would like to call this results-orientation. Since you have come a bit on the way of resolving this issue, what do you feel is the the thing that is holding you back the most from not watching the results? In what situations do you still feel the most urge to check the results?

      *Can you see how all three of your issues have the same core issue? Can you see any patters?

      GL with he grind! Any questions just fire away!

      Cheers!
      Hey, nice to meet you Erik :)

      1. I don't do 2+ days breaks that often, but I love traveling :) I just can't live without visiting foreign country, going near the lake for few days for some camping& fishing etc..
      So I have problems to comeback from these good and interesting days, but I guess it's human nature :) Most of us has hard time to get back to job.
      Luckily even when I run terrible in poker usually half day - one day break is enough to recover myself.

      2. Sometimes I just lose my focus. Maybe I should try make breaks more often... I don't play super long sessions - it lasts ~1.5-2 hours.

      3. Yes I'm results-oriented so I fight against this by not seeing results;) But I would like to try to improve it to another level so I wouldn't be effected when I even know results.
      When playing on internet it doesn't make much difference but sometimes I play live and if I could change my mindset about this my game would change in a very positive way...:)
      When I check results most often I'm curious to know how much I'm down.

      I don't think all issues have the same core but I will think about this more in depth:)
      Thanks for your assistance :)
    • gonepoker
      gonepoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 438
      Originally posted by pleno1
      Good luck with this buddy :)
      So which one is your buddy?? :f_eek: Conspiracy again?:D
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431


      3. Yes I'm results-oriented so I fight against this by not seeing results;) But I would like to try to improve it to another level so I wouldn't be effected when I even know results.
      When playing on internet it doesn't make much difference but sometimes I play live and if I could change my mindset about this my game would change in a very positive way...:)
      When I check results most often I'm curious to know how much I'm down.

      4. I don't think all issues have the same core but I will think about this more in depth :)
      3. Being results oriented is a difficult nut to crack. It's certainly doable but one major piece is tho really shift the focus from result to learning and improvement. When you do that both of the tables and during sessions it's not so much that you no longer care about results but you that you focus on getting better. This will gradually make the shift not being as result oriented. There might be other aspects such as pressure to perform and making money, being ego attached to being a "poker player", fear of failure etc. A good exercise when results orientation shows up is to ask yourself in that moment what the negative emotions are telling you or what you are thinking/worrying about. This applies the same for online and live Then you can start analyzing from there....
    • Desultory
      Desultory
      Basic
      Joined: 06.02.2013 Posts: 127
      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Yeah I play a lot of hours since I don't feel like I have big enough edge to play profitably more tables (even playing 6-7 tables my profitability is marginal). Also I try to see every bigger pot which went to showdown so I could make a note (probably couldn't do the same playing 10+tables).
      But maybe it's a leak to play such a small number of tables?:D
      I have more recently started playing 10-15 tables myself, but this is an experiment I am doing at the lower levels. I use to play 6 tables at higher stakes. Its not a 'leak' to play few tables, but there are pros and cons to both. Playing less tables means you play less hands, which means you have less hands to review, and I always found that when I had less hands to go over, I found myself making the same mistakes month on month. Now I'm playing more tables I am regularly seeing similar situations and not falling into those mistakes that I would otherwise make because the situation will only occur once a month before, etc. Also, by playing more tables you decrease variance and variance is MASSIVE.
      Disadvantage of playing more tables is that you can go on autopilot and stop thinking. People tend to get used to/attached to playing a lot more and then are too stubborn to play less ever again. I've known a student do this - refused to play less and consequently kept repeating mistakes.
      Its hard to get things into your long term learning psychy - I write everything down in a concise way so I can come back to it, because I will forget stuff for sure. When I was learning I would constantly look at this info while playing less tables to keep my knowledge sharp. I think playing less tables while learning and thinking in depth about boards, ranges etc while playing is better than playing more.

      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Probably winning too little in late position ->might be connected with folding too much to 3bets
      Could purely be variance actually. I think your opening is fine from late position. I can't see your fold to 3bet anywhere...? Maybe I'm being blind - please repost it for me.

      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Might be overplaying TPNK?
      Its normal to lose money with TPWK. You actually lose less than average over this sample.

      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Seems not playing good with 150bb+ stack
      Variance. You are up alot more 350bb+ which makes up for it.

      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Cbet success
      This is the most interesting and useful imo. You cbet High card monotone boards more than low card monotone boards, whereas my montone cbets are all pretty similar. I actually think normal calling ranges hit high card monotone boards more. I would be interested in your thoughts on this. What you cbet vs what calling range of villain on these boards. I think generally your cbets on boards are good though - similar to mine.

      I think you are likely to be a good player already.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hey there Andrius,

      I have skimmed over your thread and found out that you have some problems with losing focus.

      There are a couple of things which you can do outside of poker which will improve your focus during the poker/studying sessions, such as:

      1. Making sure that you eat healthy meals before your poker sessions. Don't eat junk food/sweets, don't drink soft drink which are full of sugar. You should also try to avoid overeating (which will make you sleepy) and undereating (which will make you hungry and cause you to lose focus). Eating foods such as salads, lean meat, fish, fruit, nuts, etc. should make you feel great during the sessions.

      2. Staying constantly hydrated. This is VERY important! I would really advise you to keep a bottle of water next to you at all times and to take frequent sips. When you start losing focus, it might be just that you are a little dehydrated.

      3. Frequent exercise will enable you to have more energy/focus throughout the day. Some people also go for a short run/walk outside before their poker sessions, so that they can clear their head of all the information and maintain a strong focus.

      4. You can also try writing down as many things as possible, which will make more space for your thoughts in your brain and prevent your mind to constantly switch from one thing to another.

      5. Eliminating distractions will also help you with focus. You can turn off the phone, skype, block the internet, etc. during your poker sessions to prevent you from being distracted.

      Now, there are also some other things which you can do within poker:

      1. You can try switching the number of tables, depending on your current focus. If you are fully focused, play the max amount of tables that you play. If you feel like you're not focused enough, you can taking 1 or 2 tables away, until you get the feeling that you're noticing everything/fully in control.

      2. Frequent breaks will also help you with maintaining your focus. There are many options for taking breaks, let's mention just two popular ones. One is to take a 15-minute break every 90-120 minutes, and the other is a bit different (it's called the pomodoro technique). This techniques works in a way that you take a 5-minute break every 25 minutes, and repeat this 3-4 times, then take a longer (15-30 minute) break.

      You can perhaps try experimenting with these techniques depending on how focused you are. If you are fully focused, you generally don't need to take a break. But if you're been playing or 3 hours and you feel like you're not very focused anymore, you should definitely take a break to help you out with your focus.

      3. You can also perhaps try doing some focus drills, about which you can learn in this video.

      I hope that by using some of this advice you will be able to improve your focus in poker :) . By the way, what do your breaks during poker usually look like? What do you do when you take a break? How often do you take breaks? How long are they?

      I'm looking forward to hearing from you soon,

      -Primož
    • gonepoker
      gonepoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 438
      Originally posted by Desultory
      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Probably winning too little in late position ->might be connected with folding too much to 3bets
      Could purely be variance actually. I think your opening is fine from late position. I can't see your fold to 3bet anywhere...? Maybe I'm being blind - please repost it for me.
      Oh yeah in overall stats screenshot it shows vs 3bet call - only 14.4%.
      Fold to 3b OTB ridiculously high. LOL I knew I'm, folding too much pre flop but not that so much:D
      I feel like Im not very good in fighting back with these stack/pot ratios and so easy to make big mistake so I rather fold :s_cry:
      http://i.imgur.com/TX9XUnB.png



      Originally posted by Desultory
      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Cbet success
      This is the most interesting and useful imo. You cbet High card monotone boards more than low card monotone boards, whereas my montone cbets are all pretty similar. I actually think normal calling ranges hit high card monotone boards more. I would be interested in your thoughts on this. What you cbet vs what calling range of villain on these boards. I think generally your cbets on boards are good though - similar to mine.
      Probably I'm more honest on mono boards and my own range hits harder high card mono boards;)

      Originally posted by Desultory
      I think you are likely to be a good player already.
      Aww my ego just moved up to higher limit :D
      Thanks :)
    • gonepoker
      gonepoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 438
      Hello Primož,

      thanks for your suggestions! I already started to practice some of them naturally and now gonna add the rest to my arsenal:)

      Originally posted by Schnitzelfisch
      I hope that by using some of this advice you will be able to improve your focus in poker :) . By the way, what do your breaks during poker usually look like? What do you do when you take a break? How often do you take breaks? How long are they?
      I try to take a break after every ~1.5 hour I play. I like to play in the mornings, so before lunch break I'm usually half way through my daily goal.
      In the morning I don't do long breakes - just walk around the flat, do something for few minutes and go back. Lunch break is either longer or after I play some more (around one hour after launch) and then go for the walk, near the sea or somewhere to get fresh air:) When I go back something similar like morning schedule continues. Usually I go to sleep quite early.
      I think my default schedule is not bad but I guess problem is that when I make short brakes I end up doing break behind computer screen. That's pretty bad.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Hello Primož,

      thanks for your suggestions! I already started to practice some of them naturally and now gonna add the rest to my arsenal:)

      Originally posted by Schnitzelfisch
      I hope that by using some of this advice you will be able to improve your focus in poker :) . By the way, what do your breaks during poker usually look like? What do you do when you take a break? How often do you take breaks? How long are they?
      I try to take a break after every ~1.5 hour I play. I like to play in the mornings, so before lunch break I'm usually half way through my daily goal.
      In the morning I don't do long breakes - just walk around the flat, do something for few minutes and go back. Lunch break is either longer or after I play some more (around one hour after launch) and then go for the walk, near the sea or somewhere to get fresh air:) When I go back something similar like morning schedule continues. Usually I go to sleep quite early.
      I think my default schedule is not bad but I guess problem is that when I make short brakes I end up doing break behind computer screen. That's pretty bad.
      Yep, that is a very important realization :) .

      Keep it up, let us know how you progress!

      -Primož
    • gonepoker
      gonepoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 438
      Hey guys,

      I want to ask about kind of focus related issues again. Could you give any tips how to single task?:D
      Lately I started thinking a bit like a women - many things in mind, but then result of thing I need to do now and here get's worse.

      Thanks!
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hey again,

      there can be multiple causes for multitasking.

      -Are you being distracted by other people/things on your pc?
      -Do you have too many things in your head, so your mind constantly jumps from one to another?
      -Do you think there are any other causes for your multitasking? Boredom with one task? Something else? You name it!

      Can you take some time to think about how you could solve these problems and let me know what you come up with :) ?

      Then we can see what works best for you, perhaps discuss some other solutions etc. ;) .

      -Primož
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi Andrius, How are you doing? :)

      Just looking in to see if you had got any further with your focusing?

      Keeping your thread up to date encourages others to post here as well of course. :) Just a reminder for you is all.

      Have fun with this course,

      MAl.
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