BrokeSoBroke - Running Above EV is for the weak!

    • BrokesoBroke
      BrokesoBroke
      Black
      Joined: 23.10.2007 Posts: 887
      - What do you play?

      I play 100NL and will be starting 200NL SH Zoom full time now.

      - Poker history?

      I've always been a FR grinder since 2008 when I started with SnG's. I started ~May 2012 @ SH games and have been grinding about 1million hands @ 100NL and I managed to somehow run 170bi below EV in 2012.

      I have managed to build a nice BR and will be starting my grind @ 200NL. I use a very strict BRM.

      - Goals and aspirations for poker?

      My goal is just to get better. I am a grinder but I want to be a winning grinder. I really want to be able to move up to 400NL and 600NL by the end of the year!

      - What do you sturggle with?

      I am now a rock grinder. I don't tilt anymore. I am improving daily and I feel like I struggle a bit because I've failed to spend the neccessary time to studying. Lately with the little help from Pleno1 and imfromsweden, I've decided to spend more time into studying instead of grinding!

      - What do you want to get out of the bootcamp?

      I just want to improve my overall game. I am getting better but I know there is so much more to learn and all I want to get out of this bootcamp is to get to know other grinders and the teachers as well and whatever I learn will be BONUS! :)
  • 34 replies
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Hey!!

      Originally posted by BrokesoBroke

      I play 100NL and will be starting 200NL SH Zoom full time now.

      Were you playing Zoom or normal tables previously? If normal, why switching to zoom, if zoom, then congrats :)

      Originally posted by BrokesoBroke

      I have managed to build a nice BR and will be starting my grind @ 200NL. I use a very strict BRM.

      Interesting, why is that? I think one big mistake people make is being too nitty with their money/bankroll, if you are good enough to beat 200nl but have ridicuously tight BRM then you are potentially costing yourself a lot of money, its very easy to simply move up and down, and I think most players who are between stakes should do it. I don't mean with 10-20bis ofc. I'd be really interested to hear your mentality here and think our psychology guys could potentially really help out.

      As an addition, how many tables of Zoom do you play? 4? Are you comfortable with it? Think you could add an extra few normal tables too or is it a little bit too much?


      Originally posted by BrokesoBroke


      - Goals and aspirations for poker?

      My goal is just to get better. I am a grinder but I want to be a winning grinder. I really want to be able to move up to 400NL and 600NL by the end of the year!

      That sounds cool, I'm pretty sure we can achieve that. 400/600 plays very differently and is one of the toughest games on the internet, would you be open to playing on other sites as well? Or just really love Stars?

      Originally posted by BrokesoBroke

      - What do you sturggle with?

      I am now a rock grinder. I don't tilt anymore. I am improving daily and I feel like I struggle a bit because I've failed to spend the necessary time to studying. Lately with the little help from Pleno1 and imfromsweden, I've decided to spend more time into studying instead of grinding!

      You seem like you really grind a tonne (hihihihiihihih Black Member) how much studying do you do on top of playing? If you were going to put a number on it would you say 50/50? 90/10? 60/40?


      Originally posted by BrokesoBroke


      I just want to improve my overall game. I am getting better but I know there is so much more to learn and all I want to get out of this bootcamp is to get to know other grinders and the teachers as well and whatever I learn will be BONUS! :)


      This is the important part. We want you guys to mix together, to get to know each other, to support each other, to crush the other regs and posting in each others threads is going to be really beneficial to all.
    • IngridN
      IngridN
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.03.2011 Posts: 12,162
      :heart:
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      Originally posted by BrokesoBroke

      I have managed to build a nice BR and will be starting my grind @ 200NL. I use a very strict BRM.

      Interesting, why is that? I think one big mistake people make is being too nitty with their money/bankroll, if you are good enough to beat 200nl but have ridicuously tight BRM then you are potentially costing yourself a lot of money, its very easy to simply move up and down, and I think most players who are between stakes should do it. I don't mean with 10-20bis ofc. I'd be really interested to hear your mentality here and think our psychology guys could potentially really help out.

      As an addition, how many tables of Zoom do you play? 4? Are you comfortable with it? Think you could add an extra few normal tables too or is it a little bit too much?
      I totally missed this one. I have to agree with pleno1 on this. It's never a problem to have a large bankroll ofc. What we do want to look into however, is to look at if you are the kind of player that is a bit fearful or hesitant to take shots. I've certainly been guilty of this previously in my career. I used the "You should have a large bankroll so you don't go busto, anything else is irresponsible" argument for at least 2 years 100+ bi at 100NL. For me personally I can now see that fear was a big part of the issue. I'm not saying its the same for you but it's certainly worth looking into. Chances are you are leaving some good money on the tables. I would be happy to help you create a moving up/down strategy depending on your comfort level and experience moving up and down.
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Originally posted by ErikStenqvist
      I would be happy to help you create a moving up/down strategy depending on your comfort level and experience moving up and down.
      I agree fully here, lets say for example, theoretically, you have 200bi for X stake and obviously 100 bi for the one stake higher (this could be 100 & 50) you only play the X stake. There is a game on the second stake with 5 fish, but because you don't have the lobby open you dont even get a chance to take the spare seat, meaning you are literally leaving money at the table.

      YES being VERY nitty in a higher stake than you are used to is fine, but not even giving yourself the opportunity to take a shot whilst you are relatively (safely) rolled is, imo a potentially BIG leak.
    • BrokesoBroke
      BrokesoBroke
      Black
      Joined: 23.10.2007 Posts: 887
      My journey went from SNG to FR. I managed to get to 200NL FR.

      Then I was told that in order to improve and move up I had to start SH so I decided to make the switch over to Zoom when it first came out and grinded 50NL.

      Last year I invested in a Forex Trader and he managed to take $22k of my BR and made it disappear. :( This was a big hit to myself and family. I have two young kids and it was tough to swallow. I was too greedy when he promised me 4x my money in a year. I believe that whatever happens in life happens for a reason and this was a great learning experience. He did some horrible things and even said this which made it really difficult for me swallow. "I felt really sick this past week. If it was my money I wouldn't have traded but since it was your money I had to trade." For us coming from a poker background didn't make any sense at all. The reason I did this was because I ran horrible in poker and needed to help my parents who lost their business and all their money due to a scam. People are
      so cruel and money makes people 100x worst. :(

      So I had to rebuild my BR. But this time around I wanted a cushion and stuck with 100BI BRM. Then I made the switch to SH but I was over rolled. I managed my first 60k hands and won at 6bb winrate. I told myself I would only move up if I can beat my current limit.

      900k hands later and running 170BI below EV I seeked help and couldn't do it alone anymore. My EV winrate was only 2.2bb over that span. So this is how I've managed to build up a 160BI BRM for 200NL. With the help of the folks here at Pokerstrategy I've managed to improve in January I managed a 4.2bb EV winrate and this month 6.6bb winrate. So it is time to move up!

      I play somewhere between 4-8 zoom tables depending on my mood. Lately ive tried to just 4 table and work on improving my game.

      Initially my goal was to move up the ZOOM ladder but After improving my game I think I want to keep improving and as I move up to 400NL I will start grinding regular tables. I will play on multiple sites once this happens for obvious table selecting purposes.

      Right now I would honestly say 4h grind : 1h study.

      I love what I do! Even when I played almost B/E for 1 million hands and ran 170bi below EV I still woke up everyday wanting to start the tables up and grind. Even when people say, "You suck! You are running bad but even at EV you only win at 2bb!" I still want to grind. I took this reply serious and decided to do something and reached out for help! This is the main reason for joining this camp! So people don't tell me I suck anymore! :)
    • tadcka
      tadcka
      Black
      Joined: 29.07.2011 Posts: 511
      Hey, mate!

      I wish you the best look, really interesting story. Two years ago I invested some money in shares too. I bought 2 different banks shares and amount of money I spent for them was big to me those days. And the funny story is, that one of those banks broke last year and another one just did the same thing, nice job! :D I would rather have spent those money on ice cream and so on :f_cry: :D


      I also want to move to NL200 soon, I'm planning to do it, when I will have 55BI for that and I would make 5BI shot. But have the same problem, due to previous swings I'm starting to become more and more careful with my BR and a year ago I was shooting higher when I just had an opportunity. Nowadays I'm a little bit scared :f_confused:
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      BM Hai ITT!

      Sick! :f_biggrin:
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      Originally posted by BrokesoBroke
      My journey went from SNG to FR. I managed to get to 200NL FR.

      Then I was told that in order to improve and move up I had to start SH so I decided to make the switch over to Zoom when it first came out and grinded 50NL.

      Last year I invested in a Forex Trader and he managed to take $22k of my BR and made it disappear. :( This was a big hit to myself and family. I have two young kids and it was tough to swallow. I was too greedy when he promised me 4x my money in a year. I believe that whatever happens in life happens for a reason and this was a great learning experience. He did some horrible things and even said this which made it really difficult for me swallow. "I felt really sick this past week. If it was my money I wouldn't have traded but since it was your money I had to trade." For us coming from a poker background didn't make any sense at all. The reason I did this was because I ran horrible in poker and needed to help my parents who lost their business and all their money due to a scam. People are
      so cruel and money makes people 100x worst. :(

      So I had to rebuild my BR. But this time around I wanted a cushion and stuck with 100BI BRM. Then I made the switch to SH but I was over rolled. I managed my first 60k hands and won at 6bb winrate. I told myself I would only move up if I can beat my current limit.

      900k hands later and running 170BI below EV I seeked help and couldn't do it alone anymore. My EV winrate was only 2.2bb over that span. So this is how I've managed to build up a 160BI BRM for 200NL. With the help of the folks here at Pokerstrategy I've managed to improve in January I managed a 4.2bb EV winrate and this month 6.6bb winrate. So it is time to move up!

      I play somewhere between 4-8 zoom tables depending on my mood. Lately ive tried to just 4 table and work on improving my game.

      Initially my goal was to move up the ZOOM ladder but After improving my game I think I want to keep improving and as I move up to 400NL I will start grinding regular tables. I will play on multiple sites once this happens for obvious table selecting purposes.

      Right now I would honestly say 4h grind : 1h study.

      I love what I do! Even when I played almost B/E for 1 million hands and ran 170bi below EV I still woke up everyday wanting to start the tables up and grind. Even when people say, "You suck! You are running bad but even at EV you only win at 2bb!" I still want to grind. I took this reply serious and decided to do something and reached out for help! This is the main reason for joining this camp! So people don't tell me I suck anymore! :)
      Interesting story but imo investing 22k of your br which was prob a large % of your br vs investing say (1-5%) of your roll at a higher limit with a big whale are two entirely different things. Last year I lost roughly 45k at 10knl and that was also a huge hit to my roll, made me a bit depressed and looking back I learned a lot of things from it, it just take a long time to learn it. I learned that I don't hate myself for playing in the game, but I should have took maybe a one buy in shot which would been a lot less and I would have 35k more to rebuild it and wouldn't have to move down a bunch of limits.

      So basically my advice is train your mind to be able to take shots one or two limits higher than the one you are grinding and then set yourself guidelines, for example with 160 buyins at 200nl, you could certainly justify a 5 buy in shot at 400, it wouldn't make you drop down to 100nl, and could justify 3-4 buy ins at 600 if you get jesus or jesus+1. Once you get up to say 200 buy ins at 200nl, now you could justify 3-4 buy in shot at 1knl. It all depends on what you are comfortable with basically you wouldn't be investing a huge part of your roll and risk of bustoing is basically non existent long as you are not someone that will tilt or move up to chase loses if you lose 3-4k. But yea some seats are very +EV and def worth playing. Also like pleno said you could tighten up and pass up marginal spots for less variance.
    • LgWz
      LgWz
      Black
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 7,641
      Hey, we battled a bit in NL100 zoom last year!

      Sucks to hear about your huge below-EV run, hope things work out for you soon.
    • BrokesoBroke
      BrokesoBroke
      Black
      Joined: 23.10.2007 Posts: 887
      Yes I remember you!

      Are you responsible for stealing some EV from me? :P

      I hear you're grinding midstakes now... I am going to be starting 200NL starting now! I will also listen to some of your advice and once I get maybe 50k hands in, if things are going well then I'll take some 4-5BI shots @ 400NL...

      Time to kill the REGS! (Except for the guys in this forum! haha well, if you get in the way I may just have to! ;) )
    • BrokesoBroke
      BrokesoBroke
      Black
      Joined: 23.10.2007 Posts: 887
      So now that we have got the introductions in... What else should we be using these threads for?

      I mean I don't want to post hands here because that's what the hand evaluation forums are for...




      **

      After thinking about what you guys were saying about BRM Nit costing me money... What do you suggest I should do? I now have ~160BI for 200NL... I would like to keep a cushion so I don't need to EVER deposit... (or move down below 100NL)...

      Should I just keep $10k online and start with 50BI BRM and grind 200NL or should I go down to $6k and use 30BI BRM and move up and down?

      Obviously 30BI BRM will allow me to move up the ladder faster and I only risk 1/5 of my BR...
    • BrokesoBroke
      BrokesoBroke
      Black
      Joined: 23.10.2007 Posts: 887
      I don't have motivational problems for grinding... I can grind 8-9hrs a day and not get stressed out or burnt out... When I play long sessions, I can play tilt free and usually B+ game...

      I LOVE to grind. I just recently came back to Canada from a 6month grind/vacation in Vietnam. I have taken ~3 weeks off to enjoy myself and travel back to Canada. Right now just recovering from jet lag but I will start my 200NL grind as soon as possible!

      I started getting back into grinding a bit by grinding 4 tables of 100NL to refresh my memory of how to play the game. ;) I will try to be more active in my Skype group and in this bootcamp.

      Thanks again to all the coaches!

      Thanks Pleno1 and gang for making a program for all of us dedicated grinders who want to improve! :heart:
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      So when does most of your volume come from? Are you playing more on week days or weekends? Because your clock is different to the UK and the fishes how do you change this around to ensure you maximise your ev?
    • BrokesoBroke
      BrokesoBroke
      Black
      Joined: 23.10.2007 Posts: 887
      It's hard for me to change my time zone because I have two young kids and I actually just work around their schedule.

      The past 6 months I've been grinding off hours. Pokerstars normally peaks around 250k players but I normally grind when there is ~50k-70k players online. Now that I'm in Canada, it gets pretty busy the whole day. :) So hopefully this increases my winnings!!!! ;)

      *crosses fingers*
    • bencb
      bencb
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 23.11.2007 Posts: 3,460
      sick story ! Wish you all the best
    • BrokesoBroke
      BrokesoBroke
      Black
      Joined: 23.10.2007 Posts: 887
      So my first real 200NL session just finished.

      I happy to report that I'm in the green! ;)



      Now if anyone can teach me how to catch up to EV, I'd pay infinite dollars!
    • tadcka
      tadcka
      Black
      Joined: 29.07.2011 Posts: 511
      as always below EV, you are cursed :f_biggrin:
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi BrokesoBroke, how are you?

      Just bumping this to help keep it moving along. I have no doubt though, that you're busy, especially with two youngsters! :)

      Still, any questions you can post here to keep this up to date if you get time. :)

      Have fun,

      Mal.
    • BrokesoBroke
      BrokesoBroke
      Black
      Joined: 23.10.2007 Posts: 887
      Sorry I haven't had time but I will start this coming Monday to be more active.


      Summary...

      We flew from Vietnam to Canada...

      Jet lagged for 1 week... (I blame the kids for waking up 4-5 times every night!)

      So now we are back in our Condo in Canada but we've decided to leave it for the parents to stay and we found a new place where we can send the kids off to school and concentrate fully on poker!

      Tomorrow is moving day! The next is GRIND! ;)

      Hopefully some 200k hand months to come this year! This year has been... How do you say... Some things just never change! :( Last year was 170bi below EV... Can we somehow beat it this year? So far so good! :)



      We've spent about 3 weeks this year travelling around so about 1.5months worth of grind... Moving up to 200NL and so far it's been successful... At least EV it is... 10k hands and winrate of like 4bb and EV of like 11bb... (I'd be happy with 2bb winrate @ 200NL with the volume!)

      I've managed to contact a lot of guys who are in this camp and we've had some little discussions here and there... I hope to help some people as well! Sometimes guys who run bad just want to talk to someone and I have all the experience in the world at running bad so I can share a little bit of my experience with them and help!

      For now, GL @ tables!

      BSB
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