Private ShyPh reporting for duty (NL 50 fast fold)

    • ShyPh
      ShyPh
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2005 Posts: 133
      Hey all,

      My name is Arthur, I'm from the Netherlands but currently living in the UK, where I am doing my PhD. I first started playing poker in April 2005 through Pokerstrategy.de. I am, as far as I know, the first Dutch Pokerstrategy member :D .

      I've mostly played Fixed limit for the first years of my poker career. I managed to become a reg at the 5/10 limit games. After going on massive tilt, hitting up the 50/100 games and donking off $10k of my bankroll, I stopped playing poker actively for a while.

      I've picked up active poker the last few months again focussing on NL. I'm currently playing NL50 fast fold poker with mixed results. I also play live at my local casino where I am crushing the games :) .

      I definately have weakenesses in my game, hence my mixed results and breaking even online. My weaknesses are:

      - Tilt, after playing for several hours and grinding out a small profit one or two stupid moves / bad beats negates my whole profit, which makes me go crazy. I have managed to control my tilt reasonably well recently.

      - Red line issues, my red line (non showdown winnings) is negative. Although I managed to improve this as well lately, it's still negative. Most likely causes: not folding fast enough when I know I'm behind, e.g. I should fold turn but I'm only folding on the river. Not bluffing in the right spots, I'm often scared to bluff the river or can't identify the right spots to do so.

      - Calling tooooo much. Say I have two pair, villian shows alot of aggression not slowing down on scare cards at all, I know he has the set but I'm still calling the river.

      I have far more leaks then this and will post some of my stats and results in due course.
  • 18 replies
    • roachru
      roachru
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.01.2007 Posts: 20,474
      Hey, :f_biggrin:

      - Red line issues, my red line (non showdown winnings) is negative. Although I managed to improve this as well lately, it's still negative. Most likely causes: not folding fast enough when I know I'm behind, e.g. I should fold turn but I'm only folding on the river. Not bluffing in the right spots, I'm often scared to bluff the river or can't identify the right spots to do so.
      Well, in fact, I believe, that today if you play carefully, then you still can win money on this limit with low red line.

      Like an example I cheked some profitable regs in my base from NL50 Ipoker.

      Some nicknames from PTR Top Winners in this year (http://www.pokertableratings.com/top-poker-winners-today)







      And mine :f_biggrin: :



      Yeah-yeah, my red-line looks pretty bad, I play 10+ tables like a fool :f_frown: :f_frown: :f_frown: What's wrong with me? :f_cry:





      I agree, that's a lot regulars play with hi-red line, but this limit is still too weak and we can make money with low red-line too.

      A hi-red line requires a more carefully game and less tables, and I can't make myself to play it )

      When I'm starting my sessions, I ever play with hi-red, but when I open 7-10 tables, my red line crash in the abyss.

      - Calling tooooo much. Say I have two pair, villian shows alot of aggression not slowing down on scare cards at all, I know he has the set but I'm still calling the river.


      I suppose, this hits our winrate a bit harder, then red line on NL50 :f_biggrin:


      But I'm agree, that for limits NL100+ we should play more carefully and try to lift up red line.


      Good Luck to you :f_grin:
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431

      1. - Tilt, after playing for several hours and grinding out a small profit one or two stupid moves / bad beats negates my whole profit, which makes me go crazy. I have managed to control my tilt reasonably well recently.
      Hey ShyPh!

      My name is Erik and I will be part of the coaching staff focusing on Tilt, A-Game, Mindset, and Lifecoaching. So if you have any questions I will have a thread up soon where you can easily let me know if you updated your thread with anything I might be able to help out with. I'll be trolling around the forums but just so i don't miss anything. smile


      1. Ok it's time to dig into the specifics. Try to be as detailed as you would in a poker hand. What types of tilt shows up? When? Vs certain opponents? What are the triggers? How can you tell you are on tilt? Try to look for signs or queues of tilt starting to show up, internal, external, and poker strategy (C an B-game plays) If nothing really comes to mind or you cant be as specific as you like, make the session into the time when you gather information about you tilt patterns.

      Cheers! :)
    • ShyPh
      ShyPh
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2005 Posts: 133
      Finished a long session today with good results :) . No tilt and played calmly throughout the session. My red line is also looking good :) .



      Two interesting hands to improve my red line. What do you think about them?

      Villian is 39 / 34 with 50% 3bet and 29% wsd over 50 hands.

      $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BTN: 81 BB
      SB: 42.1 BB
      BB: 117.4 BB
      UTG: 79.8 BB
      MP: 135.4 BB
      Hero (CO): 261.7 BB

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J:spade: K:diamond:

      UTG calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, fold, BB raises to 8 BB, fold, Hero calls 4 BB

      I call the very small 3bet, maybe a 4bet is better here?

      Flop: (17.5 BB, 2 players) 6:club: A:spade: 7:heart:
      BB bets 4 BB, Hero calls 4 BB

      The small cbet looks weak and I float to see what he will do on the turn.

      Turn: (25.5 BB, 2 players) T:diamond:
      BB bets 5 BB, Hero raises to 20 BB, BB calls 15 BB

      Again a small cbet, raise it!

      River: (65.5 BB, 2 players) 4:heart:
      BB bets 27.5 BB, Hero raises to 148 BB, fold

      The river bet looks like a block bet to me and so I shove.

      Hero wins 114.5 BB


      $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      UTG: 102.2 BB
      MP: 136.6 BB
      CO: 48.3 BB
      BTN: 81.8 BB
      Hero (SB): 337 BB
      BB: 42.4 BB

      Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9:club: 8:club:

      UTG raises to 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 2.5 BB, fold

      Flop: (13 BB, 4 players) 7:heart: T:club: 2:spade:
      Hero checks, UTG bets 8.4 BB, MP calls 8.4 BB, fold, Hero calls 8.4 BB

      Turn: (38.2 BB, 3 players) A:spade:
      Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks

      River: (38.2 BB, 3 players) Q:heart:
      Hero bets 20 BB, fold, fold

      Hero wins 36.3 BB


      Tomorrow I'll play my live game. I'll be back on saturday to post more detailed information on my stats, goals and my path to poker wisdom.
    • ShyPh
      ShyPh
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2005 Posts: 133
      Originally posted by ErikStenqvist
      1. Ok it's time to dig into the specifics. Try to be as detailed as you would in a poker hand. What types of tilt shows up? When? Vs certain opponents? What are the triggers? How can you tell you are on tilt? Try to look for signs or queues of tilt starting to show up, internal, external, and poker strategy (C an B-game plays) If nothing really comes to mind or you cant be as specific as you like, make the session into the time when you gather information about you tilt patterns.

      Cheers! :)

      Hi Erik!

      It's great to have you onboard. I can work all I want on my game, if I don't control my emotions, I will never get anywhere!

      My tilt is not based on play against certain oponents. It mostly manifests its self after a reasonably lengthy session where I either make a horribly play or get a bad beat. The main cause however is me not playing my A-game.

      When on tilt I throw around my mouse (I must have destroyed more then 15 mice by now), my keyboard and I even destroyed my 24 inch monitor recently. I continue playing for very long sessions trying to recover my losses, usually resulting in even more losses. Sometimes I also start playing higher limits to try and recover (read lose) faster.

      When I'm doing well and won a few buyins, I can usually take a few bad beats. When I'm not doing that well it's a different story. When I'm on tilt I feel powerless and not in control of my game. Trying to recover my losses is my only goal when I'm on tilt.
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Hey,

      I think on the 98cc hand we can be aggressive, if a 6/j comes and we c/raise he likely will just fold, so we don't have implied odds. I think if we c/r we can rep all of the sets and barrel off and put hi to a very tough decision with his overpairs, especially as we are multiway he will be very careful.

      What do you think?
    • ShyPh
      ShyPh
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2005 Posts: 133
      Originally posted by pleno1
      Hey,

      I think on the 98cc hand we can be aggressive, if a 6/j comes and we c/raise he likely will just fold, so we don't have implied odds. I think if we c/r we can rep all of the sets and barrel off and put hi to a very tough decision with his overpairs, especially as we are multiway he will be very careful.

      What do you think?
      Usually I play very straightforward in multi way pots OOP. But I like your line of thought here. I never really considered villian playing more carefully in multiway pots. Definitely a good point, thanks!
    • waxiesdargle
      waxiesdargle
      Basic
      Joined: 01.03.2013 Posts: 7
      Hand 1 with the KJ when a fish uses this bet sizing he can still be clicking buttons with Ax, i think your line can be ok but id be a bit worried about what range of hands the fish will b/c the turn with then donk/fold the river. Therefore id look for some past history, reads on bet sizing and try and get a good feel for the type of fish i am up against other than that wp.

      Calling the 3bet is fine, we dont have such a big incentive to 4bet as we dont have much that much fold equity v a fish and it is a bit loose for value so flatting will best best there mostly.
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      It's great to have you onboard.

      1.It mostly manifests its self after a reasonably lengthy session where I either make a horribly play or get a bad beat.
      It really is my pleasure! :)

      1. Ok so let start at the beginning. If this is a common reason for your tilt it seems like a good easy way to start. Can you talk me thorugh what a usual session where tilt shows up looks like? What is you preparation like? Warm ups etc.. How long a re you session usually? After how long do you tilt? What kind of tilt is that often shows up? Are you actively working on catching your tilt early? Are you taking breaks etc?

      Anything you can think of that might be relevant is relevant and probably even more :) The more I imagine what it is like to be you in that whole scenario the easier it will be to give you solid advice and things to work on....

      Welcome to the boot camp! :)
    • ShyPh
      ShyPh
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2005 Posts: 133
      Here they finally are, my stats. Be as critical as you can! I already know some stats I should improve, and Pleno's coaching session on constructring UTG ranges will surely help. Looking forward to Pleno's follow up session :) .

      If you'd like to see additional stats, please let me know. I'll supply them.


    • ShyPh
      ShyPh
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2005 Posts: 133
      1. Ok so let start at the beginning. If this is a common reason for your tilt it seems like a good easy way to start. Can you talk me thorugh what a usual session where tilt shows up looks like? What is you preparation like? Warm ups etc.. How long a re you session usually? After how long do you tilt? What kind of tilt is that often shows up? Are you actively working on catching your tilt early? Are you taking breaks etc?


      I never do any warm up or preparation, I usually load Pokertracker and jump straight into 2 or 4 tables of Zoom. I'm not sure how to warm up, start with one table for x minutes and slowly work your way up to your usual number of tables? Never heard of this principle, what purpose does it serve?

      The length of my session depends on how well I run. I know this should not be the case, but still I do it. If I run well, I can do any where from 2 to 4 hour sessions where I might include one break, but usually I don't do any breaks. If I run bad, or go on tilt I can do 12 hour sessions without a break. I should probably set my self a hard limit of 4 hours of play daily (week days) and maybe 8 hours during the week ends. Where I take a 15 minute break every 45 minutes or so?

      It's hard to run you through a session where tilt shows up, but I can try. I start playing with pokertracker running on the graph page and me updating it constantly. This is something I should not do but I still do, I'm too results oriented. When ever I see my graph go down by alot I get upset and a few curse words may follow. I continue playing but results are more in my mind then making the actual correct play and thus I might start calling down and staking off too lightly which, if I loose the hand, upsets me even more and I might start to throw around stuff or hit stuff.

      When ever I feel I'm tilting I tell myself to calm down and play calm. I know I should propably stop playing, or atleast take a break but I can't make myself do this, I have to get my money back!

      I also feel my tilt I partly due to me knowing in the back of my mind that I'm not actually properly beating the limit I'm currently playing and should devote more time on studying the game instead of playing.
    • ZioMio
      ZioMio
      Basic
      Joined: 04.03.2013 Posts: 14
      I'm not good in reading stats but some stats seems like they are off.

      You are defintly too tight from all positions except from sb where you seem to open too wide. 53% from sb is too high specially combined with your high fold to 3b from that position and is a big leak to anyone who is observent enough.
    • ShyPh
      ShyPh
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2005 Posts: 133
      Originally posted by ZioMio
      I'm not good in reading stats but some stats seems like they are off.

      You are defintly too tight from all positions except from sb where you seem to open too wide. 53% from sb is too high specially combined with your high fold to 3b from that position and is a big leak to anyone who is observent enough.
      I have updated the stats to include the "2 Bet PF and fold", its named a bit strangly in the PT report, but it is the fold to 3bet after raising stat.

      I do fold 65% to 3bets from the sb and I do open very wide from the SB as well. The reason for this is that I open 100% if villian folds more than 67% to a steal. Considering I raise to 2.5bb from the SB, villian has to fold 62.5% for me to profit immediately. Due to my wide opening range I do fold a lot to 3bets because most of the time I hold complete crap and don't think I should widen my 4 bet bluff range that much. Thoughts?
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431

      1.I never do any warm up or preparation. Never heard of this principle, what purpose does it serve?

      2.Where I take a 15 minute break every 45 minutes or so?

      3. I'm too results oriented.

      4.I have to get my money back!

      5.should devote more time on studying the game instead of playing.
      1. Well the purpose is to make sure that you are ready to sit down and perform at the tables with a goal in mind, being calm and focused. I will cover this in the upcoming video series but until then. Before the session starts write out two session goals. One pokerstaretgy like 3b defense and one mindset. Setting an alarm every 15 minutes that is set so that you check in on how you are doing. And it will also help you to know when to take regular breaks. The point of the session is partly to practice getting good at taking breaks and resetting. Don't ignore it by thinking "i feel fine now" because if you leave it unattended then tilt will silently grow and the back stab you when you aren't looking!

      2. I think 5-10 minutes should be. Leave the computer, have glass of water and then do 10-20 mindful push-ups. Breathing in 3-5 sec on the way down and breath out 3-5 seconds on the way up. This will help remove you completely from the game both physically and mentally. After that go over you session goals again just t keep it fresh.

      3. By sitting down knowing you have this strategy it takes focus away from the results because your main focus is on something else, learning and improving. You have to actively give your mind something else to work with. But it won't come by it self. You have to create the "game within the game".

      4. Same here focus on learning and improving.

      5. Keep it simple. One mindset thing and one pokerstrategy thing or two and don't add in more areas you work on. Ill point Schnitzelfisch in your directio and highy reccomend his Productivity material :)

      Let me know how it goes. We can always calibrate things...

      Keep up the good work! Cheers! :)
    • ZioMio
      ZioMio
      Basic
      Joined: 04.03.2013 Posts: 14
      For some reason I thought you folded much more then 65% so thats alright. Thing with opening so much from sb is that you can do it if opponent is folding but an observent opponent will try to exploit that. So if you feel opponent is not exploiting you then by all means open 50%, hell you can even open 100% if they are not exploiting you. This is why it's so hard to tell anything just by looking at stats, you have to know if someone is trying to exploit the fact of you opening so much. What you can see by looking at stats is where you could be easily exploitable, and thats where you have to look out if someones trying to exploit you.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hey there Arthur,

      I'd love to help you with your studying problems :) .

      It's awesome that you've realized that you should study more - it's an important step!

      I have some questions for you.

      1. How much and how are you studying right now?
      2. How much and how would you ideally like to study?
      3. Have you tried changing your studying in the past? What worked? What didn't?

      A really important thing to do would be to make a plan for studying. Not a plan such as a schedule, but at least some weekly goals (for example review at least 5 hands daily for a week etc.).

      When you have things planned and written down, it's way more likely that you'll get around to doing them!

      Looking forward to hearing from you soon!

      -Primož
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi Arthur, I hope we find you well?

      This is just a reminder to try to keep your thread current by updating it regularly if you can find the time ok?

      What about Primoz' questions for example, have you had any progress with them yet?

      March on!

      Mal.
    • ShyPh
      ShyPh
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2005 Posts: 133
      Sorry for not being active for a while. I'm in the final stages of my PhD and need to write up my thesis before my deadline at the end of April!

      Originally posted by Schnitzelfisch
      1. How much and how are you studying right now?
      2. How much and how would you ideally like to study?
      3. Have you tried changing your studying in the past? What worked? What didn't?
      1. I mostly studying by watching theory videos, about 1 a week and try to implement this in my game. I also try to watch some live videos but not as often, maybe 1 every two weeks or so. My current objective is to improve my preflop game.

      2. Ideally what I think I should do:
      - Database analysis to identify leaks in my game
      - Theory, by either watching videos or reading articles
      - Hand simulations using equilab / flopzilla to get a better feeling of my equity vs certain ranges, my oponents range and what boards are good to barrel on etc.
      - Database analysis of regs inorder to exploit their weaknesses.

      3. I have tried changing my studying by not playing for a week or so and just devote time on theory. Did this just for 1 week after which I resumed playing again :P
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hey again ShyPh,

      It might be better to gradually increase your studying time to make it more consistent.

      Could you perhaps make a studying plan for yourself? I would recommend to start slowly, but consistently (daily!).

      Maybe you can start for example by analyzing 1 reg each morning, first thing in the morning, before you check fb, e-mails, or start playing poker?

      -Primož