Errrrrrr got deuces?

    • GotDeuces
      GotDeuces
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2012 Posts: 11
      - What do you play?

      I play 200nl 6max on Microgaming

      - Poker history?

      For the entirety of my poker career I've only ever known MTT players. Because of this, that's the only viable option that I saw and regardless of how it made me feel I only ever played MTTs. I started off as a Low/Mid stakes MTT player before having some success and moving up to M/HMTTs in 2010/2011, playing pretty much everything. After experiencing some obscene swings (down to a number of factors inc. poor BR management, poor game selection and lack of attention on my "mental game") and realising that my skill set might not be tailored to MTTs I decided to pursue a steadier form of poker in the back end of 2012.

      - Goals and aspirations for poker?

      I want to become a powerful cash game regular, able to beat 1k and 2k NLHE+

      - What do you struggle with?

      Mostly I struggle with my emotional reaction to poker and not allowing my emotions to override logic and reason when making important in game decisions.
      These are things that I've identified and am working on.

      - What do you want to get out of the bootcamp?

      I want to seek the opinions of some of the psychology experts to see if there are any techniques and strategies that I'm not currently employing that would be beneficial to me and my mental game.
  • 15 replies
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431

      1. Mostly I struggle with my emotional reaction to poker and not allowing my emotions to override logic and reason when making important in game decisions.
      These are things that I've identified and am working on.

      - What do you want to get out of the bootcamp?

      2. I want to seek the opinions of some of the psychology experts to see if there are any techniques and strategies that I'm not currently employing that would be beneficial to me and my mental game.
      Hey GotDeuces!

      My name is Erik and I will be part of the coaching staff focusing on Tilt, A-Game, Mindset, and Lifecoaching. So if you have any questions I will have a thread up soon where you can easily let me know if you updated your thread with anything I might be able to help out with. I'll be trolling around the forums but just so i don't miss anything. :)


      1. What are the spots you struggle most with? What are the emotions connected to those spots? Can you see any patterns? How is the person you bring to the tables getting affected by the game and why?

      2. Not being detailed and focused enough on improving. Pick on or two issues on your mental issues and you work on the until they are a strength. Guys tend to work on it for a week or two then move on to the next big thing. Leaving huge holes in the mental side of the game. That is by far the biggest mistake i see. And bringing ego to the learning process, "i want all the benefits but i don't want to change" is a rather common and difficult Achilles heel to overcome.

      Cheers! :)
    • GotDeuces
      GotDeuces
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2012 Posts: 11
      Hey Eric, thanks a lot for your response.

      1. What are the spots you struggle most with?
      It's difficult to pick out specific spots but it's usually 3 and 4 bet pots vs regs in the heat of battles between me and them. Sometimes if I feel like a guy is getting the better of me, or a board has run out unfavorably in big pots I become panicked and desperately try to find a way to win the pot which usually results in making spazzy decisions. I am taking steps to combat this, steps which I learned from the book "The game of poker" by Jared Tendler, a sports psychologist who previously focused on golf and moved his attention to poker. These steps are helping a lot, but I still have a long way to go to master my emotions.

      What are the emotions connected to those spots?
      Anger during the hand then frustration and sadness about how poorly I reacted to the situation immediately afterwards. These feelings can last up to a week if left unresolved.

      Can you see any patterns?
      Yeah, if I'm playing too many tables or playing when I'm tired for the sake of volume, I end up making hasty decisions and they in turn lead to lots of poorly played hands in succession resulting in the "tilt" which I have mentioned above.

      How is the person you bring to the tables getting affected by the game and why?
      I sometimes become so enraged with myself and how terribly I've played that I can't engage with those closest to me until I've dealt with the tilt by listening to music or analysing the hands that I think I've butchered the most and getting some closure. In this state I am snappy and selfish, unaware of the feelings of the people around me and the affect I have on those feelings. Again, this is something that I've struggled with for a long time but am now making decent headway with. I have answered each question with an honest description of the extremes which I can reach if my emotions are left unchecked.

      Some of the methods which i described earlier that have helped a tremendous amount are as follows:

      1. Deep breathing in moments of panic, focusing only on my breathing and nothing else.

      2. Preparing properly before a session by writing a list of goals (ie react with fewer emotions after both winning/ losing big pots and making a bad play).

      3. Making sure not to analyse hands half way through a session. I now understand that this takes up concentration which then results in sloppy decision making. I follow a strict model now which is

      "Prepare" -> "Perform" -> "Analyse" -> "Evaluate" -> "Prepare" and so on.

      and I make time for each process so I can focus my attention on it fully.
    • GotDeuces
      GotDeuces
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2012 Posts: 11
      I have decided that at the end of every session I am going to post 5 big pots for discussion. Here are the first five.

      Hand 1.

      €1/€2 No Limit Holdem
      6 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by http://weaktight.com/

      Stacks:
      UTG DVk0Infinity €300.60 150bb
      UTG+1 GotDeuces €281.56 141bb
      CO GhettoJam €113.60 57bb
      BTN MtotheJ €502.95 251bb
      SB BaconGood4u €222.90 111bb
      BB Adamsss86 €200 100bb

      Pre-Flop: (€3, 6 players) GotDeuces is UTG+1 Qd Kd
      1 fold, GotDeuces raises to €6, 2 folds, BaconGood4u raises to €21, 1 fold, GotDeuces calls €10

      Flop: 6c 5d Jc (€39, 2 players)
      BaconGood4u checks, GotDeuces bets €23.25, BaconGood4u calls €23.25

      Turn: 4c (€85.50, 2 players)
      BaconGood4u checks, GotDeuces bets €50, BaconGood4u calls €50

      River: 5s (€185.50, 2 players)
      BaconGood4u checks, GotDeuces bets €150, BaconGood4u goes all-in €127.65

      Final Pot: €463.15
      GotDeuces shows
      Qd Kd
      BaconGood4u shows
      Th Tc

      BaconGood4u wins €444.30 (net +€222.40)

      GotDeuces lost €239.25


      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Hand 2.

      €1/€2 No Limit Holdem
      6 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by http://weaktight.com/

      Stacks:
      UTG TiSamBubaj €509.50 255bb
      UTG+1 Susekulla €276.31 138bb
      CO __PayDay__ €291.95 146bb
      BTN tikrabeda €157.82 79bb
      SB biglad €201 101bb
      BB GotDeuces €265 133bb

      Pre-Flop: (€3, 6 players) GotDeuces is BB Jd 8d
      2 folds, __PayDay__ raises to €6, 2 folds, GotDeuces raises to €20, __PayDay__ calls €10

      Flop: 6c Ks 8c (€37, 2 players)
      GotDeuces bets €25, __PayDay__ calls €25

      Turn: Qs (€87, 2 players)
      GotDeuces bets €38, __PayDay__ calls €38

      River: 9c (€163, 2 players)
      GotDeuces checks, __PayDay__ checks

      Final Pot: €163
      __PayDay__ shows
      Kd Ah
      GotDeuces shows
      Jd 8d

      __PayDay__ wins €168 (net +€89)

      GotDeuces lost €83

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Hand 3.

      €1/€2 No Limit Holdem
      5 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by http://weaktight.com/

      Stacks:
      UTG Susekulla €313.30 157bb
      CO GotDeuces €340.30 170bb
      BTN Kaedis €312.46 156bb
      SB Suits €202.65 101bb
      BB DVk0Infinity €382.95 191bb

      Pre-Flop: (€3, 5 players) GotDeuces is CO Th Td
      1 fold, GotDeuces raises to €6, Kaedis raises to €16, 2 folds, GotDeuces calls €4

      Flop: 9d 8s 7c (€29, 2 players)
      GotDeuces checks, Kaedis checks

      Turn: 9h (€29, 2 players)
      GotDeuces checks, Kaedis checks

      River: 5h (€29, 2 players)
      GotDeuces bets €30, Kaedis calls €30

      Final Pot: €89
      GotDeuces shows
      Th Td
      Kaedis shows
      5c 5s

      Kaedis wins €91.50 (net +€45.50)

      GotDeuces lost €40

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Hand 4.

      €1/€2 No Limit Holdem
      4 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by http://weaktight.com/

      Stacks:
      CO TiSamBubaj €200 100bb
      BTN DVk0Infinity €206 103bb
      SB GotDeuces €251.05 126bb
      BB MtotheJ €222 111bb

      Pre-Flop: (€3, 4 players) GotDeuces is SB 9d Ts
      2 folds, GotDeuces raises to €5, MtotheJ calls €2

      Flop: Ks Jc Qc (€9, 2 players)
      GotDeuces checks, MtotheJ bets €9, GotDeuces calls €9

      Turn: 3s (€27, 2 players)
      GotDeuces checks, MtotheJ bets €21, GotDeuces calls €21

      River: 9c (€69, 2 players)
      GotDeuces checks, MtotheJ bets €123, GotDeuces calls €123

      Final Pot: €315
      GotDeuces shows
      9d Ts
      MtotheJ shows
      2d Ac

      GotDeuces wins €314.50 (net +€156.50)

      MtotheJ lost €157

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Hand 5.

      €1/€2 No Limit Holdem
      5 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by http://weaktight.com/

      Stacks:
      UTG GotDeuces €317.35 159bb
      CO Dj-Luppy €200 100bb
      BTN Suits €245.30 123bb
      SB DVk0Infinity €324.10 162bb
      BB TiSamBubaj €285.90 143bb

      Pre-Flop: (€5, 5 players) GotDeuces is UTG Qh Jh
      [Dj-Luppy posts €2]
      GotDeuces raises to €8, Dj-Luppy calls €4, 3 folds

      Flop: 3h Qs 7d (€17, 2 players)
      GotDeuces bets €10, Dj-Luppy calls €10

      Turn: Jd (€37, 2 players)
      GotDeuces bets €30, Dj-Luppy calls €30

      River: Qc (€97, 2 players)
      GotDeuces checks, Dj-Luppy bets €68, GotDeuces goes all-in €269.35, Dj-Luppy folds

      Final Pot: €434.35

      GotDeuces wins €432.85 (net +€115.50)

      Dj-Luppy lost €114

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    • ZioMio
      ZioMio
      Basic
      Joined: 04.03.2013 Posts: 14
      Its not easy to give constructive criticism and suggestions when we have no knowledge of the other player in the hand, if you post hands in this manner with no info people will have to reply as villains were unknown regs and I dont think you will gain much from that. To make a good decision you need as much information as possible, you dont need to write everything but the more you write about an opponent the better reply youll get. Also writing down as much info as possible will force you think a lot more about a hand and make your future decisions more acurate.
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      Originally posted by GotDeuces
      Hey Eric, thanks a lot for your response.

      1. 3 and 4 bet pots vs regs in the heat of battles between me and them.

      2. I become panicked and desperately try to find a way to win the pot which usually results in making spazzy decisions.

      3. I learned from the book "The game of poker" by Jared Tendler, a sports psychologist who previously focused on golf and moved his attention to poker. These steps are helping a lot, but I still have a long way to go to master my emotions.

      5. too many tables or playing when I'm tired for the sake of volume, I end up making hasty decisions and they in turn lead to lots of poorly played hands in succession resulting in the "tilt" which I have mentioned above.

      6. I sometimes become so enraged with myself and how terribly I've played that I can't engage with those closest to me until I've dealt with the tilt

      7. I have answered each question with an honest description of the extremes which I can reach if my emotions are left unchecked.

      8. Deep breathing in moments of panic, focusing only on my breathing and nothing else.

      9. Making sure not to analyse hands half way through a session.
      My pleasure dude! :)

      1. You can make this a part of your session goals. Since you seem to be quite organized. Go over the strategy you need and anticipate what the correct adjustment in these spots would be strategy wise. Hammer down the theory as much as you can. You might be at 90% level or whatever but you need to improve and this is also sinking your teeth into a core issue.

      2. Same here, so you are adjusting badly to boards that you feel are unfavorable for you in big pots. Are these spots usually in pots where you feel early on that you are ahead or should be ahead?

      3. I thank you for the explanation, but I think you are severely underestimating my level of nerdiness when it comes to the mental aspect of poker and the material out there. ;)

      5. This can also be a session goal, putting a cap on the tables and try to stick to it. Also setting alarms every 15 min or so can help a great deal by just you checking in and see how you are doing. Try it out and see how that works...

      6. This is why it's so important to catch tilt early. What are the first signs that you can tell that you are going on tilt. Write those signs out, go over them before the session and try to catch yourself in real time doing them. This takes practice so use the alarms as a reminder.

      7. Boom! Keep that up, face it head on and just lay it all out there! :D

      8. Do you have any experience with formal mindfulness or meditation practice?

      9. Make sure that you mark the straight away in the session so there is no doubt that you can let them go. You can even have a notepad on the side for when things from outside of poker distracts you while playing...

      Awesome work so far! :)
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Agree with ZioMio,

      GotDeuces has real potential to end uo being superstar, looking forward to these daily, detailed hands, also convert them w/weaktight so they are pretty <3
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi GotDeuces, how are you, well I hope?

      Just a reminder to ask you to update your thread to keep it current and moving forwards. I can appreciate how busy you may be of course. :)

      Perhaps you could post how your session goals are progressing that would be great.

      Regards and have fun,

      Mal.
    • GotDeuces
      GotDeuces
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2012 Posts: 11
      Sorry for being so rubbish at updating the thread, I really don't enjoy doing these sorts of things as the regularity of it just doesn't come naturally to me at all. It is something I'm trying to improve on in my personality so bare with me.

      Here are the hands for today.

      1. http://wt.ag/XLBfaY

      The villain in this hand seemed semi competent, but not good. He'd been opening a fair amount and shown aggression down the streets.

      2. http://wt.ag/XLDIlN

      The limper in this hand is a huge fish and was really struggling to fold anything pre flop. The isolator is an aggressive but reasonably weak regular.

      3. http://wt.ag/XLDOd5

      The villain in this hand seemed very aggressive and was 3betting FAR too much. I wasn't entirely sure how competent he was but he did seem like he had at least half a clue.

      4. http://wt.ag/XLE3Vz

      This guy seemed OK, but again reasonably weak.

      5. http://wt.ag/ZqLaRg

      And this last one I had no reads on the guy.
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Haha, no need for apology, I know people have other committments. I also know that before I had this position I loathed routine and had to work hard on it.

      March on :)

      Mal.
    • GotDeuces
      GotDeuces
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2012 Posts: 11
      Just a quick update of what's been going on.

      I've been winning this month but over a very small sample as I've found it very difficult to continue with my session if I start well and win 3/4 buyins quickly, in fear of losing that money back. I didn't really register this fear as a problem until now, as I've realised that I've fallen into some emotional pit falls that I thought I was dealing with.

      This became apparent to me today when I played like a bran-dead lunatic, lost $600 and became emotionally overwhelmed. I haven't felt like this in a few weeks (since taking Jared Tendler's steps to combat my issues) but I guess I've been sloppy with my recovery and slipped. I felt horrible. I really wanted to snap my laptop in two out of frustration, not at poker per say, but at myself for playing so obviously badly. As soon as I realised this, I immediately quit playing and made a cup of roibos. I took 10 minutes to sit and reflect on what had happened with my tea but it didn't make me feel any better so id ecided to go for a walk into town, get some lunch and listen to some music. This IMMEDIATELY sorted me out and when I came back I was pumped up and ready to crush.

      I played very well and managed to cruise out of my hole, not getting frustrated at the spots where I was in the previous few hours and even days.

      Here is my graph for today.



      This graph reflects exactly how I felt playing poker today. In the first 300 hands I was erratic and emotional, but when I came back after lunch I was almost a completely different person, playing calm and calculated.

      SO we'll see how it goes tomorrow re: controlling my emotions :)
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      Originally posted by GotDeuces
      Just a quick update of what's been going on.

      1.I've been winning this month but over a very small sample as I've found it very difficult to continue with my session if I start well and win 3/4 buyins quickly, in fear of losing that money back.

      2.I took 10 minutes to sit and reflect on what had happened with my tea but it didn't make me feel any better so id ecided to go for a walk into town, get some lunch and listen to some music. This IMMEDIATELY sorted me out and when I came back I was pumped up and ready to crush.
      1. Make sure you have session goals so that the results isn't the only thing you are looking for. Get into the habit of warming up before the sessions. When his feeling comes up. Do you have a strategy on how to combat it in real time?

      2. The biggest things you can take away from this is that you cannot think your way out of it effectively. You have to DO your way out of it. Going for a walk, mindfulness and exercise is great. If you were the coach what would you tell yourself you should do as your anti-tilt routine after a session?

      Cheers! :)
    • GotDeuces
      GotDeuces
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2012 Posts: 11
      Do you have a strategy on how to combat it in real time?
      The only strategy I employ in real time is a 10 second focused deep breathing exercise to a favourite song or injection of logic. Both do help. What else could you recommend?

      Get into the habit of warming up before the sessions.
      I've been trying this and it's working a treat. I sit in a quiet room with my eyes shut, breathing deeply and concentrating on those breaths with some energetic music on repeating my goals for the session and ending with my overall goal for the next 6 months (make enough money to move away to London with my girlfriend) and this has been helping me a lot. I'm pumped every time I start now. Are there any elements of warm ups in your experience that people have said work particularly well?

      The biggest things you can take away from this is that you cannot think your way out of it effectively. You have to DO your way out of it. Going for a walk, mindfulness and exercise is great. If you were the coach what would you tell yourself you should do as your anti-tilt routine after a session?
      I would say that going for a walk/run with some music on, or going to the gym would be great routines to get into to after a session.
    • GotDeuces
      GotDeuces
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.10.2012 Posts: 11
      So today I struggled to get up and grind after playing a long and emotionally draining HSMTT session on Sunday night, but I did eventually drag myself up, had a shower and began my new and improved warm up routine.

      After the routine I was pumped and played 4 tables of €200. The games were really good and my positive mindset seemed to pay off almost immediately.
      As you can see from teh graph at the bottom of the post I won $650 within 60~ hands and by 500 hands was winning $900~ and playing really well.

      My gf arrived home and I took this opportunity to have a break, hang out with her a bit and then analyse the hands from the previous session. Some of the goals I'd highlighted during my warm-up routine were as follows:

      "Don't snap react on your emotions when put in a tough/frustrating spot, take an extra 5 seconds and breathe"

      and

      "Make your preflop bluffs based on having well balanced ranges not just on gut reads"

      Whilst analysing the 500 hand session I found that I'd accomplished both of my goals and was very pleased with myself, so after dinner I played again and although I maybe played slightly sloppier because of fatigue, I repeated my routine and stuck to my goals. Here's the graph for the day.



      I will be playing all week so I'll keep updating the thread with how well I do either way.
    • imfromsweden007
      imfromsweden007
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.10.2008 Posts: 726
      Great job! Any notable hands?
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      Originally posted by GotDeuces
      1.The only strategy I employ in real time is a 10 second focused deep breathing exercise to a favourite song or injection of logic. Both do help. What else could you recommend?

      2. Are there any elements of warm ups in your experience that people have said work particularly well?

      3.I would say that going for a walk/run with some music on, or going to the gym would be great routines to get into to after a session.
      1. Talking the situations out loud, set strategical reminders written out non the screen. etc are the two easiest and most effective

      2.Mindfulness and then visualization, session goals, setting alarms that go off regularly that reminds you to look into how you are doing in that moment.

      3. Yes this work really well. Try when out running to really push yourself at the end and then when you stop directly do a 10min meditation and try to slow your heartbeat down. Very effective and good mindfulness practice and also a lot of fun..


      Keep me posted!

      :)