LgWz - NL200 zoom

    • LgWz
      LgWz
      Black
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 7,641
      Hello,

      My name is Pedro, I'm a 24 year old Brazilian who's been playing full time for a couple years after finishing my college degree (Environmental Engineering).

      When I started playing poker seriously during college I played 9man STTs, moved up until the $60 level and then switched to MTTs. After a while I got tired of the very long grinding days and decided to mix in some cash game days every week, at NL100. When Zoom came out I really liked the idea of starting and finishing sessions whenever I wanted so since then I pretty much only play zoom cash, playing MTTs only on some Sundays or during special series like TCOOP.

      Currently I play most of my volume at NL200 and take a few shots at NL500 when pool seems soft (doesn't happen much, lol).

      I want to improve and be able to at some point play NL500 zoom and NL1k standard tables on a regular basis. Of course I'm still far from this but I hope to dedicate myself and see big improvements in the next months.

      I've been grinding more and more lately (most of the time playing 4 zoom tables), played about 150k hands in february against 110k on january and december. If I get good enough to play NL500 regularly with a couple NL200 on the side I could consider trying SNE this year, even though I'm a bit behind pace now.

      What I've been struggling with is not losing too much when I run bad. I think I do pretty badly when nothing works, always trying to outplay people when they have the nuts or when they can't find the fold button no matter what, and sometimes also overplay my value hands :f_cool: On the other hand I'm very happy with my A-game.

      Another thing I have problems with is keeping track of history/tendencies of all the regs around, I'm pretty bad at taking notes and using them effectively during play.

      So this is it for now, I'm looking forward to discussing spots with other grinders during the bootcamp and hope we can all help each other reaching a higher level!
  • 60 replies
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      My hero <3



      VAMOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


      Looking forward to this one.
    • getdotacom
      getdotacom
      Black
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 607
      Hi !

      I've played some hands with u, so following this :P I also tried to go for sne this year, but gave up after sick ds in January after 200k hands. I hope at least u won't give up that early. GL
    • roachru
      roachru
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.01.2007 Posts: 20,474
      Hi, :f_biggrin:

      What I've been struggling with is not losing too much when I run bad. I think I do pretty badly when nothing works, always trying to outplay people when they have the nuts or when they can't find the fold button no matter what, and sometimes also overplay my value hands
      I belive, that's a familiar problem for plenty of players :f_biggrin:

      I had one interesting discussion in Skype conference about it. Some players count, that when we play session with "bad luck" we should just stop it and return to game on the next day.

      On the one hand, this opinion haven't any mathematic or logic foundation and looks like banal superstition. But on another hand, how often we play session in deeply minus and how often we can break this trend and get session in "+" in the end? We all know how usually it ends :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin:

      Very often we're thinking: "Come on man, it's time to stop it "- 3 BI". But we stay in play for -5 BI and more, because we want to reach 100k hands per month, high status, or win in rake races :f_biggrin: "

      And I believe, biggest problem, that at this moment in fact we can't play in our A-game and that's the most important reason why we lose in the end of session.

      So, we should learn to stop this session not because of superstition, but because we can't really control quality of ours game.

      Another thing I have problems with is keeping track of history/tendencies of all the regs around, I'm pretty bad at taking notes and using them effectively during play.
      Same here :f_biggrin: That's soooooo boring. I haven't any ideas how I could make myself to do it.

      Actually, we should do it in out poker offices after session. But that's so tediously :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin:
    • LgWz
      LgWz
      Black
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 7,641
      Originally posted by getdotacom
      Hi !

      I've played some hands with u, so following this :P I also tried to go for sne this year, but gave up after sick ds in January after 200k hands. I hope at least u won't give up that early. GL
      Hey, nice, I like your blog. Added you in community btw.
    • LgWz
      LgWz
      Black
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 7,641
      Originally posted by roachru
      I belive, that's a familiar problem for plenty of players :f_biggrin:

      I had one interesting discussion in Skype conference about it. Some players count, that when we play session with "bad luck" we should just stop it and return to game on the next day.

      On the one hand, this opinion haven't any mathematic or logic foundation and looks like banal superstition. But on another hand, how often we play session in deeply minus and how often we can break this trend and get session in "+" in the end? We all know how usually it ends :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin:

      Very often we're thinking: "Come on man, it's time to stop it "- 3 BI". But we stay in play for -5 BI and more, because we want to reach 100k hands per month, high status, or win in rake races :f_biggrin: "

      And I believe, biggest problem, that at this moment in fact we can't play in our A-game and that's the most important reason why we lose in the end of session.

      So, we should learn to stop this session not because of superstition, but because we can't really control quality of ours game.
      Yeah, I tend to lose more on really bad days than I win on really good days, even though I just had a +16 bi day this week :P

      I think I do ok when I'm 5-7 bi down, after this things start to go downhill. I think it's important to keep trying and build some mental muscle, as Jared Tendler says, unless I can't focus at all, but maybe I overdo it and it brings more harm than good, who knows. What I know is that if I only play when everything is 110% I'll end up playing 20k hands in a month ^^

      I do have strict stop loss limits when I take a shot though, on NL500 playing badly and not noticing can be a HUGE disaster.
    • tfsantos
      tfsantos
      Black
      Joined: 20.01.2010 Posts: 1,518
      Hi,

      nice to see u here.

      I hope you improve your game as you plan... Anybody who follows your blog knows you are on the right track.

      see you around here



      Edit: it seems "c u" might not look so good to Portuguese speakers
    • LgWz
      LgWz
      Black
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 7,641
      :D
    • BC1989RF
      BC1989RF
      Gold
      Joined: 09.04.2010 Posts: 845
      . Boom bookmarked.
      You have a blog somewhere out there? Would love to read it - i like your style/thought process.

      -Ben
    • LgWz
      LgWz
      Black
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 7,641
      Originally posted by BC1989RF
      . Boom bookmarked.
      You have a blog somewhere out there? Would love to read it - i like your style/thought process.

      -Ben
      Hey, thanks. I have a blog but it's in the Portuguese community.
    • Varune
      Varune
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 5,068
      What I've been struggling with is not losing too much when I run bad. I think I do pretty badly when nothing works, always trying to outplay people when they have the nuts or when they can't find the fold button no matter what, and sometimes also overplay my value hands On the other hand I'm very happy with my A-game.

      Another thing I have problems with is keeping track of history/tendencies of all the regs around, I'm pretty bad at taking notes and using them effectively during play.
      I can relate to these problems and like to get some tips for this aswell :)
    • luca02
      luca02
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 3,180
      Originally posted by Varune
      What I've been struggling with is not losing too much when I run bad. I think I do pretty badly when nothing works, always trying to outplay people when they have the nuts or when they can't find the fold button no matter what, and sometimes also overplay my value hands On the other hand I'm very happy with my A-game.

      Another thing I have problems with is keeping track of history/tendencies of all the regs around, I'm pretty bad at taking notes and using them effectively during play.
      I can relate to these problems and like to get some tips for this aswell :)
      Same here.
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      1. What I've been struggling with is not losing too much when I run bad. I think I do pretty badly when nothing works, always trying to outplay people when they have the nuts or when they can't find the fold button no matter what, and sometimes also overplay my value hands :f_cool: On the other hand I'm very happy with my A-game.

      2. Another thing I have problems with is keeping track of history/tendencies of all the regs around, I'm pretty bad at taking notes and using them effectively during play.
      Hey LgWZ !

      1. Can you elaborate a bit more on why you think that is. What is your thought process and emotional patterns from then beginning of running bad until you play your worst at the end etc? Detail is key. Trying to outplaying people, not being able to find the fold button, and overplaying value hands is usually connected to results orientation. If you ego or your value of yourself as a person is strongly connected to the short term results then it would make sense for you to react this way. you put a lot of pressure Are you actively trying to learn and improve on specific areas of your game while playing? How often do you check the cashier?

      2. Perfect example on a spot where you can turn you weakness into am strength. Sit down for every session with the session goal of becoming better at taking notes. If you focus on this for the session you poker skill will still be doing its thing and winning you money. But you are not cluttering your brain as much with old negative thought pasterns. So when you get sucked out on or run bad you can focus on taking notes on it instead of going into passive. emotional mode.

      Cheers!
    • LgWz
      LgWz
      Black
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 7,641
      Hey Erik,

      I'm having trouble describing what I feel in words haha, let's try anyway :P

      Triggering tilt:

      - First of all, bad beats don't really trigger tilt on me, if I get it in good I got it in good. They might magnify it if I'm already off my best game though (makes no sense, I know, but what I think is the old "if I lose when I'm ahead and when I'm behind, how I play doesn't matter").

      - Coolers tilt me to some extent. KK < AA bvb won't tilt me, but in spots where it might not be a cooler (say top two or bottom set facing a river raise, or getting it in with 3rd nut flush on the flop - spots where if I'm "coolered" I'm not really sure if I overplayed my hand or not against a particular guy).

      - Getting played back at all the time. This owns me a lot, I think they can't have it all the time and I'll eventually spew somewhere. Part of me wants to just fold and move on, part of me thinks there's no way they can always have it. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear hehe. BTW this is an area where I see confidence playing a MAJOR role, if I'm playing really well I don't have any problems with this, I feel I make good rebluffs/calldowns/folds or whatever counters their agression, but when confidence is low I really suck at playing back at. Might be something related to not knowing this stuff to an unconscious level and then not being able to think clearly when running bad? Idk

      - Bad boards. This also has some impact. Sometimes the boards just run as bad as they can everytime. You got a set, by the river it's a 4 flush 4 straight board.

      To be honest I feel a bit silly writing this :rolleyes: because I can't control any of it, just how I play.

      I don't really check the cashier, maybe once a week or so to know how my roll is or if I'm close to getting enough FPPs to buy a bonus. I do check results for the day a lot though, countless times a day.

      Actively learning - I watch a bunch of videos from a few sites and think about spots a lot when I'm not playing, but I'm weak at reviewing my own play in an analytical way - doing match calcs and stuff. This is weird because I took a ton of math classes in uni and like the subject, I think I just spend too much energy playing instead.

      -------------------------------

      On taking notes: I used to take tons of them, but after some time I'd end up with a huge load of disconnected notes on a guy and it would take forever to read it and come up with a plan to counter him in game. I need to work on a system that works well for me. Will take your suggestion anyway.

      ------------------------------

      To finish this post I'll illustrate with a graph shape that has happened a lot in the past months:



      At some point I "get it" again, and it repeats =p
    • getdotacom
      getdotacom
      Black
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 607
      This is one of those situations where u're on a downswing and u start tilting a little bit and make things even worse. It has happened to me many times as well, I think the best solution is stop playing for a couple of hours or maybe a day. Only problem with this - when u go to sne or want some sick volume u can't afford that.
      I found 1 thing that helped me a little bit in these situations - I started analyzing that hand right after it during my session. When u get to the conclusion that u played it good, it actually helps to play on and avoid spews. When u find a spew that way, definitely close all tables. And actually when u're certain u played good all previous hands, but only got unlucky, helps against tilt, at least for me. And after some time I got used to 15bi downswings in session and couldn't find any spews during these sessions. Interestingly enough, I could find some spews in winning sessions, only every time I hit something and win, so in the end I started to analyse every close spot during my session, now I don't tilt very often, only maybe when something like losing 10bis over 100 hands happens.
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      Originally posted by LgWz
      Hey Erik,

      I'm having trouble describing what I feel in words haha, let's try anyway :P

      Triggering tilt:

      - First of all, bad beats don't really trigger tilt on me, if I get it in good I got it in good. They might magnify it if I'm already off my best game though (makes no sense, I know, but what I think is the old "if I lose when I'm ahead and when I'm behind, how I play doesn't matter").

      - Coolers tilt me to some extent. KK < AA bvb won't tilt me, but in spots where it might not be a cooler (say top two or bottom set facing a river raise, or getting it in with 3rd nut flush on the flop - spots where if I'm "coolered" I'm not really sure if I overplayed my hand or not against a particular guy).

      - Getting played back at all the time. This owns me a lot, I think they can't have it all the time and I'll eventually spew somewhere. Part of me wants to just fold and move on, part of me thinks there's no way they can always have it. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear hehe. BTW this is an area where I see confidence playing a MAJOR role, if I'm playing really well I don't have any problems with this, I feel I make good rebluffs/calldowns/folds or whatever counters their agression, but when confidence is low I really suck at playing back at. Might be something related to not knowing this stuff to an unconscious level and then not being able to think clearly when running bad? Idk

      - Bad boards. This also has some impact. Sometimes the boards just run as bad as they can everytime. You got a set, by the river it's a 4 flush 4 straight board.

      To be honest I feel a bit silly writing this :rolleyes: because I can't control any of it, just how I play.

      I don't really check the cashier, maybe once a week or so to know how my roll is or if I'm close to getting enough FPPs to buy a bonus. I do check results for the day a lot though, countless times a day.

      Actively learning - I watch a bunch of videos from a few sites and think about spots a lot when I'm not playing, but I'm weak at reviewing my own play in an analytical way - doing match calcs and stuff. This is weird because I took a ton of math classes in uni and like the subject, I think I just spend too much energy playing instead.

      -------------------------------

      On taking notes: I used to take tons of them, but after some time I'd end up with a huge load of disconnected notes on a guy and it would take forever to read it and come up with a plan to counter him in game. I need to work on a system that works well for me. Will take your suggestion anyway.

      ------------------------------

      To finish this post I'll illustrate with a graph shape that has happened a lot in the past months:



      At some point I "get it" again, and it repeats =p
      Ok, so we have bunch of different issues here. They intertwine and overlap to a certain extent. The best way to approach this is to take one thing at a time. To make the biggest issue your priority. So chose one and I'll try to give you specific things you can work on.

      And feeling silly about writing it and doing it anyway is facing the issue. You should give yourself a pat on the back for putting yourself out there. I am a firm believer that putting yourself in uncomfortable spots and overcoming it is the way to live life. :)

      Things are the way they are, accepting it and then doing something about it is he way to go!
    • BC1989RF
      BC1989RF
      Gold
      Joined: 09.04.2010 Posts: 845
      Regarding the system note, this is the one i use:

      ------------
      Strategy
      ------------
      ~
      ~
      ~

      ------------
      Solid Reads
      ------------
      ~
      ~
      ~
      ------------
      Questions
      ------------
      ~
      ~
      ~
      ------------
      Observations
      ------------
      March 13
      ~
      ~
      ~


      keep things fairly simple. would need to rearrange it pre/flop/turn/river spots somewhere along the way but couldnt figure it out yet.
    • BrokesoBroke
      BrokesoBroke
      Black
      Joined: 23.10.2007 Posts: 887
      Good to see you here. I have had this happen to me as well until I figured most regs at my stake aren't really as good as I think so I stop leveling myself which has reduced tilt a lot.

      Do you mind if I add you to Skype? Or friends on here?
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Can I just call you my hero and Vamosssssss at you everyday please?

      Thread needs some more epic hand histories too!
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Originally posted by LgWz
      Actively learning - I watch a bunch of videos from a few sites and think about spots a lot when I'm not playing, but I'm weak at reviewing my own play in an analytical way - doing match calcs and stuff. This is weird because I took a ton of math classes in uni and like the subject, I think I just spend too much energy playing instead.

      Hey there Pedro,

      how about working on those things the first thing in the morning, before you spend all the energy on playing and other activities :) ?

      Tackling the thing which you are having problems with in the morning will enable you to feel really good about yourself once you complete it and will give your motivation a boost, whereas avoiding it/leaving it for later on will just make you feel bad about not doing it, when you know that you should be doing it ;) .

      Looking forward to hearing from you,

      -Primož