[VIDEO] Turning Made Hands into a Bluff

  • 34 replies
    • atton64
      atton64
      Silver
      Joined: 31.01.2008 Posts: 1,503
      Is siete a winning player? ?( ?( ?(
    • yegon
      yegon
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2012 Posts: 3,048
      Just watched the vid, seemed very reasonable, I would have probably auto checked back the turn, even with a hand like 9T not thinking it through

      This is based on information about the opponent of course but I would guess a majority of players I play against at NL200 (including myself) have their turn checking and also check/calling ranges severly unbalanced and weak and that the EV of bluffing would be much higher than calculated in the video

      What I especially liked is the fact that we have so many value hands in our range and practically no air (meaning no pair hands) on the turn. At NL100 or NL200 I would be very hesitant to pay off KQ and even AQ (as villain in the video) on the river vs most regs as they just do not valuebet thinly at all and would never bet KQ, even check back some AQ.

      Seeing our range being as valueheavy, what do you think about overbetting the river? It would allow us to get more value with our strong hands and it puts pressure on even the overpairs in villains range.
    • gonepoker
      gonepoker
      Gold
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 439
      Nice vid, tried to find spots to turn hands in to bluffs
      Is this fine spot to turn hand in to a bluff?

      BB: $100 (100 bb)
      UTG: $119 (119 bb)
      MP: $100 (100 bb)
      CO: $67.79 (67.8 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $100 (100 bb)
      SB: $100 (100 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with A Q
      3 folds, Hero raises to $2, SB folds, BB raises to $9, Hero calls $7

      Flop: ($18.50) A J 8 (2 players)
      BB bets $9, Hero calls $9

      Turn: ($36.50) 5 (2 players)
      BB bets $16, Hero calls $16

      River: ($68.50) T (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $66 and is all-in, BB calls $66 and is all-in
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      If he folds AK it's pretty nice but I think we have enough SDvalue here to check. Do you think he folds AK?
    • gonepoker
      gonepoker
      Gold
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 439
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      If he folds AK it's pretty nice but I think we have enough SDvalue here to check. Do you think he folds AK?
      In my eyes this situation is similar to situation in the video - he doesn't have nuts OTR I can check back and win vs some hands but I split vs AQ ant lose to AK. I called twice so I can't have air so I believe he should check/fold AK since he probably expects me to check back sd value?
    • atton64
      atton64
      Silver
      Joined: 31.01.2008 Posts: 1,503
      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Nice vid, tried to find spots to turn hands in to bluffs
      Is this fine spot to turn hand in to a bluff?

      BB: $100 (100 bb)
      UTG: $119 (119 bb)
      MP: $100 (100 bb)
      CO: $67.79 (67.8 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $100 (100 bb)
      SB: $100 (100 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with A Q
      3 folds, Hero raises to $2, SB folds, BB raises to $9, Hero calls $7

      Flop: ($18.50) A J 8 (2 players)
      BB bets $9, Hero calls $9

      Turn: ($36.50) 5 (2 players)
      BB bets $16, Hero calls $16

      River: ($68.50) T (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $66 and is all-in, BB calls $66 and is all-in

      I don't like your betsizing here. You're repping flush(/KQ) but with such a big betsizing after he checks it is mostly some hand turned into a bluff. I think you wouldn't bet that huge with your flushes and KQ. I would snapcall this with AQ and AK and maybe A9(if i cant call profitably preflol), and sometimes check my entire range to give you an opportunity to bet your whole range and turn hands into bluff.
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Originally posted by atton64
      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Nice vid, tried to find spots to turn hands in to bluffs
      Is this fine spot to turn hand in to a bluff?

      BB: $100 (100 bb)
      UTG: $119 (119 bb)
      MP: $100 (100 bb)
      CO: $67.79 (67.8 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $100 (100 bb)
      SB: $100 (100 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with A Q
      3 folds, Hero raises to $2, SB folds, BB raises to $9, Hero calls $7

      Flop: ($18.50) A J 8 (2 players)
      BB bets $9, Hero calls $9

      Turn: ($36.50) 5 (2 players)
      BB bets $16, Hero calls $16

      River: ($68.50) T (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $66 and is all-in, BB calls $66 and is all-in

      I don't like your betsizing here. You're repping flush(/KQ) but with such a big betsizing after he checks it is mostly some hand turned into a bluff. I think you wouldn't bet that huge with your flushes and KQ. I would snapcall this with AQ and AK and maybe A9(if i cant call profitably preflol), and sometimes check my entire range to give you an opportunity to bet your whole range and turn hands into bluff.
      What bluffs do you think we represent though? JQ/KJs?
    • sk345di
      sk345di
      Global
      Joined: 07.05.2009 Posts: 225
      @atton64

      just curious, what betsizing would you use? We have a potsize shove left in a 3bet pot, i have never done anything else besides shoving with my entire range, open for some new ideas...

      @gonepoker

      I think this is the perfect spot to turn a made hand into a bluff. As a general rule whenever someone goes bet, bet, check in a 3bet pot they are folding like 80% of the time so i am shoving everything (depends on player dynamics though) . When he calls i expect to see something like AT or JT, if it's AK taking a note




      .
    • LgWz
      LgWz
      Black
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 7,641
      I think we have enough sdv/don't bluff enough better hands so I'll just check back AQ, but it's a good spot to turn Jx and worse into a bluff imo.

      But keep in mind that since this river is pretty good for our range good players can check their whole range here if they expect you to vbet and bluff a lot.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Had hard time finding air in my range to bluff shove OTR and I have a bunch of val hands that will want to go in so decided this is weak enough to turn into bluff. Not having diamond kinda sucks but given his sizing figured we can discount most flushes. Thoughts?

      €0.50/€1 No Limit Holdem
      6 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG (€131.50) 132bb
      UTG+1 (€115.42) 115bb
      Hero (CO) (€103.50) 104bb
      BTN (€84.01) 84bb
      SB (€101.28) 101bb
      BB (€101.63) 102bb

      Pre-Flop: (€1.50, 6 players) Hero is CO A:club: Q:spade:
      1 fold, UTG+1 raises to €3, Hero calls €3, 3 folds

      Flop: A:diamond: 6:spade: J:club: (€7.50, 2 players)
      UTG+1 bets €5, Hero calls €5

      Turn: 5:diamond: (€17.50, 2 players)
      UTG+1 bets €11, Hero calls €11

      River: 2:diamond: (€39.50, 2 players)
      UTG+1 bets €23.50, Hero goes all-in €84.50, UTG+1 folds

      Final Pot: €147.50

      Hero wins €144.50 (net +€41)

      UTG+1 lost €42.50
    • LgWz
      LgWz
      Black
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 7,641
      Looks good, it's hard for him to have a flush with the A :diamond: on board and you have more J :diamond: X :diamond: hands in your range than he does the way the hand was played.

      I have one as well:

      $1/$2 No Limit Holdem
      PokerStars
      6 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG ($278.36) 139bb
      UTG+1 ($222.60) 111bb
      CO ($147.19) 74bb
      Hero (BTN) ($539.37) 270bb
      SB ($200.18) 100bb
      BB ($231.70) 116bb

      Pre-Flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is BTN Q:diamond: A:club:
      UTG raises to $6, 2 folds, Hero calls $6, 2 folds

      Flop: 6:club: 5:diamond: A:diamond: ($15, 2 players)
      UTG bets $10, Hero calls $10

      Turn: 9:diamond: ($35, 2 players)
      UTG bets $24, Hero calls $24

      River: J:heart: ($83, 2 players)
      UTG bets $56, Hero goes all-in $499.37, UTG folds

      Final Pot: $195

      Hero wins $635.57 (net +$96.20)

      UTG lost $96

      Impossible for me to have total air, he can't have many flushes with A :diamond: and Q :diamond: dead and it's super hard for him to call without a flush.
    • yomatiyo
      yomatiyo
      Black
      Joined: 17.02.2010 Posts: 9,683
      Originally posted by atton64
      Is siete a winning player? ?( ?( ?(
      millons... =)
    • atton64
      atton64
      Silver
      Joined: 31.01.2008 Posts: 1,503
      Originally posted by sk345di
      @atton64

      just curious, what betsizing would you use? We have a potsize shove left in a 3bet pot, i have never done anything else besides shoving with my entire range, open for some new ideas...
      lol apologies, I thought that it is another hand. Sorry.
    • x3mwisp
      x3mwisp
      Black
      Joined: 31.03.2009 Posts: 3,604
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $1(BB) Replayer
      SB ($112)
      BB ($129)
      UTG ($324)
      UTG+1 ($240)
      CO ($224)
      Hero ($103)

      Dealt to Hero 8:diamond: 8:heart:

      fold, fold, CO raises to $2.50, Hero calls $2.50, fold, fold

      FLOP ($6.50) 7:club: 2:club: T:spade:

      CO bets $4.35, Hero calls $4.35

      TURN ($15.20) 7:club: 2:club: T:spade: 7:spade:

      CO bets $11.62, Hero calls $11.62

      RIVER ($38.44) 7:club: 2:club: T:spade: 7:spade: 6:club:

      CO checks, Hero bets $21, CO folds

      Hero shows 8:diamond: 8:heart:

      Hero wins $36.71

      Application of the video :) I realised it when I instaclicked check behind and then insta turned off the autocheck and decided it's a good spot to do it :) It's the best card to do it imo.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      nh x3!!!

      Is this also a fine spot to do it?

      I thought that he would shove himself if he has value and that he'd snapfold AK to my shove.

      Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 2129305
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $247.56
      SB: $100.00
      BB: $106.67
      UTG: $50.00
      MP: $124.91
      Hero (CO): $123.06

      Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with A :diamond: Q :spade:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $2.75, 1 fold, SB raises to $9, 1 fold, Hero calls $6.25

      Flop: ($19.00) 9 :diamond: A :heart: T :spade: (2 players)
      SB bets $11, Hero calls $11

      Turn: ($41.00) 2 :spade: (2 players)
      SB bets $21.50, Hero calls $21.50

      River: ($84.00) J :spade: (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $81.56 all in, SB folds
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      @LgWz: I like that hand and you explained pretty well why.

      @x3mwisp: you think maybe making it bigger could be better? Hard for you to have a bluff but w these positions I think villain might sigh call w some hands hoping you are value towning yourself.

      @Farma: yea, think it's nh. This river improves us so much we should prob be shipping our whole range, well maybe except AK. :f_biggrin:
    • x3mwisp
      x3mwisp
      Black
      Joined: 31.03.2009 Posts: 3,604
      I actually don't like Farma's hand because the only hand we're trying to make fold is AK. AJ,AT might just call us. Btw AJ would be a snap I believe :)
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      Originally posted by gonepoker
      Nice vid, tried to find spots to turn hands in to bluffs
      Is this fine spot to turn hand in to a bluff?

      BB: $100 (100 bb)
      UTG: $119 (119 bb)
      MP: $100 (100 bb)
      CO: $67.79 (67.8 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $100 (100 bb)
      SB: $100 (100 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with A Q
      3 folds, Hero raises to $2, SB folds, BB raises to $9, Hero calls $7

      Flop: ($18.50) A J 8 (2 players)
      BB bets $9, Hero calls $9

      Turn: ($36.50) 5 (2 players)
      BB bets $16, Hero calls $16

      River: ($68.50) T (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $66 and is all-in, BB calls $66 and is all-in
      vs a good player, that will play the river well, I don't like it and would prefer to have Qh instead but since most guys don't think about protecting their range here and will x/f better hands and we can rep pretty well here I like it.
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      Originally posted by LgWz
      Looks good, it's hard for him to have a flush with the A :diamond: on board and you have more J :diamond: X :diamond: hands in your range than he does the way the hand was played.

      I have one as well:

      $1/$2 No Limit Holdem
      PokerStars
      6 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG ($278.36) 139bb
      UTG+1 ($222.60) 111bb
      CO ($147.19) 74bb
      Hero (BTN) ($539.37) 270bb
      SB ($200.18) 100bb
      BB ($231.70) 116bb

      Pre-Flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is BTN Q:diamond: A:club:
      UTG raises to $6, 2 folds, Hero calls $6, 2 folds

      Flop: 6:club: 5:diamond: A:diamond: ($15, 2 players)
      UTG bets $10, Hero calls $10

      Turn: 9:diamond: ($35, 2 players)
      UTG bets $24, Hero calls $24

      River: J:heart: ($83, 2 players)
      UTG bets $56, Hero goes all-in $499.37, UTG folds

      Final Pot: $195

      Hero wins $635.57 (net +$96.20)

      UTG lost $96

      Impossible for me to have total air, he can't have many flushes with A :diamond: and Q :diamond: dead and it's super hard for him to call without a flush.
      this one is probably my favorite from the thread. combo wise and also imo his sizing looks like he never has a bluff and will fold a ton of stuff that we lose to vs shove so I like it quite a bit.
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