Double stake

    • paukkp
      paukkp
      Platinum
      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 7,621
      Hi everyone!
      My nameis Victor, I'm 33. I'm from Ukraine


      At the moment I play in zoom nl100 6max.

      I've been playing the various types of tournaments for a quite a long time. My last limit was SNG DON100$.
      I play cash for about 2 years. My start limit was nl2. At the moment my result is nl100 +1.7EVbb/100 for the 214k hands.

      My goal in poker is to win all the money and to beat all of the other players. :D :D :D :coolface: For the beginning I'd like to reach the $50.- per hour level.

      As a player I have a following problems: I am a poor player after call 3bet, regardless if I'm an aggressor or caller. After call 3bet my loose rate -200bb/100 (excluding JJ+, AK). On nl50 I had -100bb/100. After face call 3bet I have -120bb/100 (excluding JJ+, AK).It might be not bad, but I don't feel myself confident in such situations.
      Possibly my biggest problem is a lack of concentration. I press "call" and in a second I realise I should have made a bluff raise! I do a value bet with my standard size, and, after opp make fold, I remember that my opp has really weak range and my betsizing is too high for him. Etc. If I lose my concentration, I play as the nl2 player. Due to this problem I've lost a lot of money.

      In Bootcamp I'd like to improve my gaming experience and English. =)

  • 15 replies
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431

      Possibly my biggest problem is a lack of concentration.

      [I]Hey Victor!

      My name is Erik and I will be part of the coaching staff focusing on Tilt, A-Game, Mindset, and Lifecoaching. So if you have any questions you can just post them
      here and let me know in my Q&A thread if i take too long to reply. I'll be trolling around the forums but just so i don't miss anything. :)

      Why do you think that is? What happens that make you lose concentration. After how long of playing usually? Are there any signs you can see that you are starting to lose focus?


      Skype: erik.stenqvist
      Email: Info@ErikStenqvist.com[/quote]
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hey there Victor,

      the lack of concentration can also be connected to your energy levels. Do you play only when you are energized, or do you also play when you are tired?

      Could you please describe your usual day in detail so that we can perhaps find some causes for your loss of concentration? What is your nutrition like(what do you eat, when do you eat)? Do you stay properly hydrated? Do you drink anything else besides water? What is your sleep schedule like? How much and how do you exercise?

      Looking forward to hearing from you!

      -Primož
    • paukkp
      paukkp
      Platinum
      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 7,621
      [quote]Originally posted by ErikStenqvist

      Possibly my biggest problem is a lack of concentration.

      [I]Hey Victor!

      My name is Erik and I will be part of the coaching staff focusing on Tilt, A-Game, Mindset, and Lifecoaching. So if you have any questions you can just post them
      here and let me know in my Q&A thread if i take too long to reply. I'll be trolling around the forums but just so i don't miss anything. :)

      Why do you think that is? What happens that make you lose concentration. After how long of playing usually? Are there any signs you can see that you are starting to lose focus?
      [/quote]
      Hi Erik!
      I want to stress that I’m talking about lose concentration not for a long time but short periods of time- just few seconds.
      The problems with concentration may occur because of the various reasons. Sometimes it happens because I’m tired and then I lose concentration very often. There is a simple solution to beat this. I just shut all of the tables and having a rest. But more often this is related to the difficult decisions I make in poker. After the complicated hand when I doubt in a decision I’ve just made. Or my opponent surprised me in a showdown. Or I’ve really made a mistake by some reason. Then for a few seconds I stop thinking about the hands I play and carry on thinking about past hand. When it happens, I make lots of mistakes in the hands I play. Sometimes in cases like this I even stop the game. Because one mistake leads to another and so on… By the way, this is my main tilt. I almost never tilt when opponent catches two out on the river but I stop controlling the game when I start making mistakes.
      Sometimes I lose my concentration when I think about something which isn’t game related. For example I remember that I forgot to buy something in the shop. It gives the same result – for a few seconds I stop thinking about poker play and make gross mistakes. I tried to not to think about such hands during the game, but just to mark them in my mind to analyse them later. But it does not always help me.
    • paukkp
      paukkp
      Platinum
      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 7,621
      Originally posted by Schnitzelfisch
      Hey there Victor,

      the lack of concentration can also be connected to your energy levels. Do you play only when you are energized, or do you also play when you are tired?

      Could you please describe your usual day in detail so that we can perhaps find some causes for your loss of concentration? What is your nutrition like(what do you eat, when do you eat)? Do you stay properly hydrated? Do you drink anything else besides water? What is your sleep schedule like? How much and how do you exercise?

      Looking forward to hearing from you!

      -Primož
      Hi, Primož!
      As I already told, I’m mostly concerned about short term losing of concentration. But I’m ready to get a grip with improvement of my long term concentration. Usually I don’t play when feel exhausted. But sometimes I have to when I fail to win enough hands in time. I also stop playing when I make too many mistakes. I try not to get into situations when I have to play in any condition.

      This is my usual week day’s schedule:
      6:30 — wake up
      7:00 — getting children to the nursery
      8:00 — breakfast (usually coffee with biscuits or sandwiches)
      8:30 — play
      10:00 — break
      10:30 — watching video, base analysis, work with EquiLab
      12:00 — lunch (soup/porridge/pasta, herbal tea)
      13:00 — play
      14:30 — break
      15:00 — forum, checking mail and news
      16:30 — play
      18:00 — bringing kids back from nursery
      19:00 — play
      20:00 — tea (soup/porridge/pasta, salad, herbal tea)
      21:00 — forum, watching video, sometimes play
      21:30 — getting ready for bed
      22:00 — bed time.

      Very often I have other things to do instead of game. Such as shopping, visiting doctor etc. Roughly half of the days of the month do not go as described above.
      I eat when I want to, there is no specific time for it. I might have dinner at 15:00 or at 11:00. In the breaks between play I often drink tea. I am having plenty of liquids but I almost do not drink water. I drink herbal tea/coffee/juice in total 3-4 l per day.
      Unfortunately I don’t do much sport. I prefer running, exercising with dumbbells. But I hardly spend for it more than 15 minutes a day.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hey again!

      I can see that you've described a couple of causes of concentration which Erik is surely going to be able to help you with (such as focusing on the past too much, etc.).

      You have also mentioned that your mind sometimes wanders to other places (such as forgetting to buy something at a store). I think this is natural and it happens to a lot of people, but there is a solution for it.

      The problem is mainly that you are most likely storing too much information in your head. That is why it comes back to haunt you when you least need it.

      What you could do about this problem is simply write more things down. Write down every thought that comes into your head during the session on a piece of paper and move on with the session. Or even better, try to write as many things down as possible throughout the day! Make shopping lists, take notes while watching videos/reviewing hands, write a reminder that you need to call someone later on, etc. This way, your head will be clearer and there will be less possible distractions during your poker sessions ;) .

      Let's take a look at your day.

      Your sleeping schedule looks fine, and I love the breaks as well. By the way, what do you usually do during the breaks?

      I can see some opportunities for improvement in your nutrition and drinks. What do you think you could improve there?

      Also, perhaps being in front of a PC at 21:00-21:30 is not the best thing in the world. If you perhaps changed this to a more relaxing activity away from a screen (playing with kids perhaps? if they're not sleeping yet. or talking to your wife, reading books etc.), your sleep quality should improve and you would feel more energized throughout the day.

      What do you think?

      -Primož
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      1. There is a simple solution to beat this.

      2.but I stop controlling the game when I start making mistakes.

      3.Sometimes I lose my concentration when I think about something which isn’t game related. For example I remember that I forgot to buy something in the shop. It gives the same result – for a few seconds I stop thinking about poker play and make gross mistakes. I tried to not to think about such hands during the game, but just to mark them in my mind to analyse them later. But it does not always help me.
      Hey Victor!

      Let's see what we have here. These three issues are related to each other so I'll try to break them down a bit.

      1. I totally agree! But what about making sure that you don't get tired in the first place? :) Any spontaneous ideas on how to do that?

      2. Why are you being so hard on yourself for making mistakes? Realizing that you will forever make mistakes in poker, for the simple fact on incomplete information. So instead begin using mistakes to your benefit by looking at them as pointers were you need to learn and improve. That way you have the luxury to move on to making other mistakes that you can learn from. Thats how it goes. It's not about the destination: "It's about the Journey"

      3. Try having a notepad next to you an just quickly write down what your thinking about when you catch yourself wandering. Mark every hand that bothered you instantly after i happens and tell yourself out loud something like this " I will mark the hand now so that i can go through after the session when i have time and focus to actually do something productive with the information. For now i will let them go. In this present moment I need to focus on the decision I have right now in front of me." Or anything else that sums it up for you and makes you think right again. Saying it out loud just gives it a ton more impact because you have to actively speak out your optimal approach or mindset..

      Hope that helps a bit. Just keep firing away if there is anything :)
    • paukkp
      paukkp
      Platinum
      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 7,621
      Hi Primož!
      Marking- it’s an interesting idea. It helped me once when I had troubles with sleeping. But I’m afraid it might happen that I'll remember that I forgot to write something? Anyway, I’ll try to make more marks, thanks. We shall see the result.
      Regarding the breaks, during the breaks I usually drink tea, speak on the phone or discuss something with my colleagues on Skype.
      I agree that time before bed is not the best time to spend it on the computer from the sleeping point of view. But I have the best working ability at this time. In the evening I’m usually full of energy.
    • paukkp
      paukkp
      Platinum
      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 7,621
      Hi Erik!


      1. I’ve got only one measurement of tiredness – mistakes. The more of them and their level lower – then I’m more tired. If I missing some obvious things that do not necessarily lead to loss of money now, but might result in loss later. In this case I just close the tables. For example, I make CBet without analysing stats of opponent (Fold vs CBet, Bet vs MissCBet etc). If there are several errors in a row – a sure sign that I’m tired.
      2. I’m being so hard on myself for making mistakes because I know that I cannot make most of these mistakes. Because of this I cannot engage in the development of more difficult areas, and this is generally slows my development. Why should I, for example, do some calculation of a complex line if I losing lots of money due to my carelessness. I’ve been playing nl50 to zero until I learn how to make a little bit less of mistakes (markers helped which I started to put during the game).But still lots of mistakes. At one time I noted them and then carefully calculated EV mistakes due to loss of concentration. At the moment they cost me 2..3bb/100.
      3. Marker of each hand helped me get through nl50.But it helps when there are not strong emotions. If I'm surprised (opponent played unusually), interested (hard hand), or angry (at yourself, that made ​​a stupid mistake), the marker helps only after 3-5 seconds. During this time, I make an average of 2 move on the tables. If I act on river – price of move- 0.5BI. On the one hand emotions - prevent play in a short period of time. On the other hand - they create motivation, which helps to keep the necessary level of concentration on the long distance.
      There is a radical method of solving the problem - do not play until the emotion is not extinguished. But so may not be enough timebank.
    • paukkp
      paukkp
      Platinum
      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 7,621
      It's my stats after call 3bet (excluding JJ+,AK):

      WTSD 28.5%
      W$SD 52.7%
      WWSF 38.5%
      Fold vs Flop CBet 41%
      Fold vs Turn CBet 38.7%
      Fold vs River CBet 53%
      Raise Flop CBet 13%
      Raise Turn CBet 20%
      Raise River CBet 8%
      River Call Efficiency 1.34

      I mark problems with red. May be Fold vs Flop/Turn CBet - is also the problem.



      After face call 3Bet (excluding JJ+,AK) I have such stats

      WTSD 33.5%
      W$SD 53.3%
      WWSF 56.8%
      Flop CBet 74%
      Turn CBet 44%
      River CBet 36
      Fold vs Raise Flop CBet 57.8%

      Problem w Flop CBet. I think optimal will be 60..65% & check-fold more. What do you think?
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      Originally posted by paukkp
      Hi Erik!


      1. I’ve got only one measurement of tiredness – mistakes. In this case I just close the tables.

      2. I’m being so hard on myself for making mistakes. Because of this I cannot engage in the development of more difficult areas.

      3. If I'm surprised (opponent played unusually), interested (hard hand), or angry (at yourself, that made ​​a stupid mistake), the marker helps only after 3-5 seconds.
      Hey again! :)

      1. While it's certainly not a big leak to quit when you are tired, it's not optimal if it is making you lose volume because of it. And it sounds like you are. First of all, when you notice that you are tired instead of insta-quitting try to will power through a bit more and say "I will keep playing my best and give poker my full attention without making mistakes for another 10-15min" This way you put effort and work in when you are at your "weakest" so to say. Then you try to backtrack and see what happened before the session and in session and see if you can start to find any patterns to what is making you feel tired some days etc. Can you prepare better for the session for example...

      2. Try to get back to basics and plug the fundamental small high frequency spots first. Many players focus on the big pots and the "cool" plays. Keept it simple until you feel fundamentally solid. C-Betting, 3b, 3b defense and hand range stuff for example. You know what applies to you.

      3. are you actively trying to anticipate the situations that usually tilts you before they happen? Often this are aggro moves by the opponent we hadn't mentally prepared for. When we are surprised anytime during a session we can know that we didn't take everything we could into consideration. What are the most common spots?
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Originally posted by paukkp
      Hi Primož!
      Marking- it’s an interesting idea. It helped me once when I had troubles with sleeping. But I’m afraid it might happen that I'll remember that I forgot to write something? Anyway, I’ll try to make more marks, thanks. We shall see the result.
      Regarding the breaks, during the breaks I usually drink tea, speak on the phone or discuss something with my colleagues on Skype.
      I agree that time before bed is not the best time to spend it on the computer from the sleeping point of view. But I have the best working ability at this time. In the evening I’m usually full of energy.
      Hey again,

      you could try and take a couple of minutes during the warm-up for your session to brainstorm anything that you might have in your head and needs to be written down.

      In any case, if something still comes to mind during the session, just write that down as well and move on :) .

      The break activities are good, maybe skyping is not the best because of a screen involved.

      Good luck!

      -Primož
    • paukkp
      paukkp
      Platinum
      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 7,621
      Hi Erik!

      1. I do not think it's a good idea. I filter on the length of sessions - the longer I play, the more my win rate falls. This applies to all sessions which are longer than one hour. And this is confirmed at a distance.
      Similar advice I have often met Jared Tendler. And it is good for golfers, because they have a physical exercise. For poker players such actions may end as fate of chess players such as Paul Morphy and Akiba Rubinstein. About their fate is not much to say in chess environment. I think lots of poker players have quite similar fates. The brain is not a muscle. And it is necessary to train its stamina by other methods.
      2. I like this idea. I’ll try it.
      3. The most frequent case - opponent showdown the hand, which does not correspond to his statistics. Nit opponent makes calldown with 2nd pair. Sometimes such actions could be explained only because of the opponent is in tilt. But sometimes opponent has just really adjusted himself to my game.



      Hi, Primož!

      Thanks! I will try it.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hey again,

      did you try the new things? How did they workout for you? Did you have any problems with them? Did anything work exceptionally good?

      -Primož
    • paukkp
      paukkp
      Platinum
      Joined: 17.01.2008 Posts: 7,621
      Hi Primož!
      Sorry for the long silence.
      I tried brainstorm before the session and it’s seems to be brought some results. But firstly, this takes a significant amount of time, and secondly, I start playing after I’ve already done something before. That’s why I could only play a few before getting tired.
      Analysing my results, I reached the conclusion, that it would be optimal to reduce the session time to 1 hour. I also increased the breaks. It gave me a significant effect. The number of mistakes dropped in times. Although I play fewer amounts of hands per day, my win rate grows. I guess we could speak of the results in a distance over 100 thousands of hands. So far I played 43 thousands in the new style.
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      Originally posted by paukkp
      Hi Erik!

      1. This applies to all sessions which are longer than one hour. And this is confirmed at a distance.
      The brain is not a muscle. And it is necessary to train its stamina by other methods.

      3. The most frequent case - opponent showdown the hand, which does not correspond to his statistics. Nit opponent makes calldown with 2nd pair. Sometimes such actions could be explained only because of the opponent is in tilt. But sometimes opponent has just really adjusted himself to my game.



      Hi, Primož!

      Thanks! I will try it.
      1. Remember that this is true for you. For other people it's different. They might be able to play 2-3 hour sessions or maybe only 30 minutes. If you pretend that the brain is a muscle just to make an analogy possible then it might be easier to understand how this works in session. When you get tired after one hour of playing there are two approaches we can take. Take regular effective active breaks for 2-5 minutes or so to reset our mind so we can play for another hour. We also have to look at why we got tired or unfocused to begin with. The game is wearing you down if you need to use a lot of energy on keeping focus, mind jumping between past and potential future situations on or off the tables. When we talk about the brain as a muscle we don't mean that you should use more force to power you way through in the traditional sense. It means that you probably need to look at the quality of your thinking and emotional state while playing.

      You should be able to play longer than one hour if you take regular breaks every hour or so. What is stealing energy in a session? Beats, worrying about results, or maybe ego vs other players?

      3. When you bluff the river and he is tanking there is only two things you need to think about. What will I do if he raises? And. How will I react if he calls and the outcome or range is not what I perceived that it would be?

      If any of the two happens and you get caught by surprise then you didn't prepare and anticipate the situation before i happened. Where they a part of you thought process on the turn? If not, should they be?

      Try to take active responsibility of the quality of the player/person you bring into any situation. Even if the situation is to you liking or not.. :)