tolari - nl50 zoom

    • tolari
      tolari
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2010 Posts: 761
      Hi guyz

      Im 21 years old, finance student/grinder from Poland. I play nl50 zoom short handed, 4 tabling



      here are my results, problem is I've played around 200k hands on nl50, I am playing with winrate around +0,5/100, but HM2 lost somewhere half of my database.

      anyway I want obviously to progress and work on my winrate :)

      Last half year I didn't play due to erasmus, so I need a fresh perspective on my game.

      In february I've played also around 10k hands on nl100 ( they got erased from history also...) I don't even know exactly how I did because I didn't check cashier then, but it wasn't really good for sure.

      I am struggling with deciding whether to move now to nl100 or stay at nl50 and leave when I can beat it.

      Last month i played around 100k hands with around -1,5 bb/100, so I think sticking to nl50 until I get green winrate on at least 100k hands is a better option?

      Poker history?

      I've started learning poker more seriously a bit over two year ago,

      played over 1,3kk hands all together

      got 90% of my roll frozen coz of FTP,

      grinded back from scratch till nl 50 and got nice bankroll boost in december - thats why im overrolled

      I had couple of breaks from poker - first 5 months after ftp froze, and lastly 6 months coz of Spain. (got back february 7th;d)


      Goals and aspirations for poker?

      Playing the best poker I am capable of and continously getting better. The stakes progression or other achievements will be a secondary outcome of it.

      Volume wise I want to play at least 100k hands per month, with productive, tight schedule.

      Depending what stakes Ill be playing at the end of this year, I want to aim for SNE, this year I want to achieve 300k supernova.


      - What do you sturggle with?

      :S1.blinds:
      1. building 3betting and flatting ranges from blinds vs loose stealers.
      1.2 determining how many % of hands I should defend.
      1.3 deciding wether to cbet or not when I 3bet preflop.

      :S2.button:
      2. I steal virtualy 100%, I limit this range when I see people adjusting( I stop making instant profit from steal ), how to adjust without overadjusting?

      :S2.1is it really bad to have 75% fold to 3bet when you open 100% and standard reg will 3bet you around 10%??,

      when I see someone going over 20% 3bet vs my steal from button - I start to steal around 90% and 4bet/call of wider,

      I know about obvious adjustments - if he folds a lot to 4bets I 4bet with trash and monsters, not with AQ,TT-JJ coz then its better to call and keep him looser,

      If he 5bet jam alot I 4bet depolarised range with big value part that will call off, etc.

      :S3. 3betting in position:

      3.1 3betting and game plan with suited connectors - im loosing money with them, also when flat calling - might be variance, probably bad game plan.


      3.2 3bbeting weak AXs - when I hit board like AXX I usually check back for pot control and to induce and make higher chance for getting 1 street of value,

      assuming this is it correct to call off vils leads on turn and river if cards are realitve blanks?

      I mean there are a lot of regs who play 17% utg and 22~% MP and I 3bet them with these hands ( for bluff some SC and AXs, KJo,AJo, sometimes ATo) from MP,CO also.

      I think I have problems with determining when to give up a TPno kicker type of hand in 3betted pots with quite agressive players,

      and also when is it better to fast play these types of hands since there are also a lot of calling stationish regs.

      My deal is how to find this balancing line, or is it ok to just mix these lines basing on "gut"...?;d

      :S4. AK, QQ for value vs UTG,MP open,

      I still don't have big enough sample to be 100% sure on which players should I stack off with these holding when they open from early positions.

      I mean if I have a dynamic with a players its easy and I don't think twice about the hand if I run into top of his range.

      But I have problems in this spot vs unknown players.

      Should I 3bet fold AK and 3bet/ call 4bet and play consciously with QQ? What I do knwo is usually flat AK, hope for a squiz and then 4bet the sqz,

      when I see flop after flating I almost always raise cbet on low numeric boards, never raise on AXX and calldownd in case of 3barrels on dry boards, raise on AKX.

      with QQ I think most of the time I just 3bet and stick it in.

      :S5. bet folding - this one is a mindset leak I think, I am pretty sure I don't fold after getting raised on river enough - what would you say the river call efficiency should be?

      or should Ijust filter these hands and check? still its hard to determine coz I am not sure how to look at ev of folding to this raise, is it 0 or is it - (what we have invested in the pot sofar) or something different?

      also usually at these spots I need around 25% equity to break even and I just assume they might be bluffing often enough and I lack knowlegde to determine how often vil will turn his weak showdown value into bluff.

      Also I might get results oriented in this one, but I have seen ppl bluffing in such super weirdo ways.

      :S6. mindset leaks: - I smoke around 5 cigarettes per day

      - I often demotivate myself when I have stuff to do for my university

      , I don't do it till last minute and I don't play poker before I finish coz playing with a project above my head was always hard for me and coz of it I loose a lot of time.

      - I can manage not to look at cashier for about a week, but I feel a need to.

      - I feel well when I play well and sometimes feel bad when I played well but runned into vils top range a lot or tried to bluff them from nuts couple of times.

      - sometimes I play when I am tired but I am not aware of that during playing. when it happens I usually tilt.

      I am doing now concentration excercise during breaks ( I make 15-20 minutes breaks every 1,5 hour) and monitor if the score is ok, if its too low I don't continue with the session.


      - What do you want to get out of the bootcamp?

      I want to learn as much as possible.
  • 34 replies
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431


      :S6. mindset leaks: - I smoke around 5 cigarettes per day

      - I often demotivate myself when I have stuff to do for my university

      , I don't do it till last minute and I don't play poker before I finish coz playing with a project above my head was always hard for me and coz of it I loose a lot of time.

      - I can manage not to look at cashier for about a week, but I feel a need to.

      - I feel well when I play well and sometimes feel bad when I played well but runned into vils top range a lot or tried to bluff them from nuts couple of times.

      - sometimes I play when I am tired but I am not aware of that during playing. when it happens I usually tilt.

      I am doing now concentration excercise during breaks ( I make 15-20 minutes breaks every 1,5 hour) and monitor if the score is ok, if its too low I don't continue with the session.

      Hey tolari !

      My name is Erik and I will be part of the coaching staff focusing on Tilt, A-Game, Mindset, and Lifecoaching. So if you have any questions you can just post them
      here and let me know in my Q&A thread if i take too long to reply. I'll be trolling around the forums but just so i don't miss anything. :)


      If you want to quit smoking i can recommend Alan Carr - The easy way to stop smoking. It worked great for me and worth a try.

      What would you say is the one biggest issue with your mindset apart from smoking?

      Cheers!
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Hey,

      From your pre flop stats, you look like you're playing really good/aggresisve stats.

      Could you post your post flop stats, positionally so we can see if something is going wrong?
    • tolari
      tolari
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2010 Posts: 761
      @ErikStenqvist:
      Hi!

      I think I've heard about it, gonna give it a try.

      My biggest problem would be being results oriented with aggresive plays and big bluffs, when I get called down by a hand I assumed vill would fold.

      I hate the feeling of not being sure if he played me or if it is just variance or if my assumptions were wrong.

      It makes my game kinda incosistent where one day I am bluffing a lot, next day in similar spots I run into nuts or get my 3 barrels called twice in a row by a 3rd pair.

      Then I sorta shut down on these plays until I feel more assured I know when to do them. It might be some kind of need of control problem, or lack of poker skillz duno.

      it is visible on my graphs when my red line shifts a lot.

      I also want to loose the need to check cashier.


      thanks:)

      @pleno1
      Hi!

      sure, I hope this stats format is ok, its what I use to play:



      thanks!


      @the removed post:)

      I am not upset, but I need you to give me specific anwers to these spots.

      lets look at blinds:

      whats your gameplan on different board structures ( when to donk/check raise/donk turn/ calldown etc), math of range vs range when BU steals - like what % of hands we can play (to max the EV!) when BU is stealing lets say 70% and no obvious leaks postflop, the thought process behind so I can make my own ranges later on etc.

      you can post stats of a aggro player and explain step by step how would you play vs. him from small blind and big blind. Keeping in mind to calling/raising all hands that will have EV > -0,5 from sb and > -1 from bb, I know how to play 20% range, I want to play all +ev hands.

      I am not looking for something like: hey, bu is opening wide what should I do?

      answer: start 3betting more :s_cool:
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hey there tolari,

      I would like to help you with your studying procrastination problems :) .

      The thing with study projects is, that when you procrastinate them, they are constantly in your head. This messes up with your focus when you try to do anything else, because you know that you should be studying instead. This brings stress, bad mood, etc. and never ends well.

      So why not reverse this? Could you perhaps try working on your most important task of the day (when you have study projects, these would be the most important) the first thing in the morning (before you open the tables, before you check your e-mail, forums and skype)?

      If you could manage to do this, you would feel really good about yourself after you've finished it, you would be happier and more motivated throughout the day because you would know that the most ugly task is done already and all the others will be less ugly, and you would be able to play poker normally :) .

      Now I'm not saying that you should do the whole project as soon as you get it. I think the most important part of it is starting it - once you start doing something, it's easy for you to continue doing it.

      So what you can do is break the study projects down into smaller pieces, making them less ugly and intimidating. So, you would need to for example:
      -read instructions [10min]
      -gather study materials [30min]
      -do the first part of the instructions [10min]
      -do the 2nd part [20min]
      -do the 3rd part [1h]
      -write a conclusion/report [30min]
      -style the documentation for the project properly [15min]

      So instead of having in your head (i need to do this, and it will take me a whole afternoon...), if you take a the time to plan the project ahead and estimate how much time each part will take you, it will be way easier to go and actually do the steps. The planning itself also shouldn't take you very long, 10 minutes at most.

      So once you have the plan made, you can simply commit to working on your most important task for at least 15 minutes each morning, first thing in the morning (after shower and breakfast). If you want to work on it for longer after the 15 minutes have passed, you can of course do that. This is an extremely valuable habit to form and it will pretty much destroy your procrastination!

      And if you don't have any study projects going on, you can of course just work on your ugliest poker task that you tend to procrastinate, for example reviewing hands or watching videos ;) .

      What do you think? Are you willing to give it a shot :) ?

      -Primož
    • tolari
      tolari
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2010 Posts: 761
      @Schnitzelfisch

      thanks! I will apply, tried something like this, this month during finals - worked fine. As you said when I forced myself to do stuff in the morning I felt much better and didn't procrastinate much and actually managed to put a ton of volume in the evenings

      (I have a history often falling victim to the vicious circle of internet - fb, 9gag, youtube and series, when I have lots to do and don't really feel like starting)

      I think I've read about it in your productivity guide - awesome work again!:)

      @poker

      got a quite devastating swing these last 4 days, -30bi in 20k hands ( I've checked cashier ) went through hands and database on daily basis and can't really figure out how to grasp the problem and what the problem is.

      I obviously run cold as bottom of hell, ev wise only!;d -20bi... but it seems like every part of my game suddenly stopped working. I even have negative winrate at button!!

      I know that a good % of time swings for XXXk hands are nothing that bizzare even for big positive winrates, but I don't want to assing it all to variance, if it is just variance - ok, in case not I better change something - is it a good reasoning?

      I came to conclusion I might have sizing tells, started to pay more attention to balance sizings, but do you think regs at nl50 make notes about sizing?

      I've also played 4k hands on nl25 to check, and there everything seems fine.

      I don't think I've sudenly started playing scared money, I still have around 125bi for nl50...

      but I mean cmon, negative winrate on BU after 20k hands and on small blind -50bb/100 so as if i folded all hands.

      dunno, we will see. Anyway I would appreciate a lot some feedback to stats or things I struggle with:)

      cheers!
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hey again,

      awesome, I hope that it'll work out for you again :) .

      I'm not sure if you've read about this in the guide yet, but I really recommend you to get an internet addon like stayfocusd (chrome) or leechblock (firefox) to eliminate those tiem wasting websites from your life ;) .

      good luck!

      -Primož
    • oblioo
      oblioo
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 02.10.2012 Posts: 338
      Hi tolari,

      One thing you may not be aware of struggling with is cbetting. Looking at your stats, it seems like you cbet way too often on the flop. This was also the case for the last soldier thread I looked at; check out Minajev's thread for my response to that.

      To me it also seems like you are raising too aggressively on both the flop and turn--a pretty rare leak!
    • tolari
      tolari
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2010 Posts: 761
      Thing with cbeting is when i see a player folding 50% to cbet I just cbet and expect to have immiediate profit from this cbet. Rarely someone folds less than 33% which is break even point for cbet of 50% of pot size.

      Against better players I mix it up with checking back top pairs and letting them barrel or 3bet bluff their raises on flop with 2OC + backdoor equity/gutshot and bettter

      Also I've started recently barreling more to make the gap between flop cbet and turn cbet lower, in HM when I look at cbeting succes on diferent streets and board textures it seems I can +EV barrel this way:

      single raised pots

      A: R 1 barrel; T 3 barrels; M 2 barrels
      K: R 3 barrel; T 3 barrels; M 3 barrels
      Q: R 3 barrels; T 2 barrels; M 3 barrels
      J: R 2 barrels; T 3 barrels; M 1 barrel
      T: R 3 barrels; T 1 barrel; M 1 barrel
      9L:R 3 barrel; T 3 barrels; M 1 barrel

      with A,K,Q... being flop high card and R - rainbow, T - two suits, M - monotone.

      I mean, what besides being exploitable more easily are the downsides of cbetting too much?

      I can check how often my cbet get raised and compare it with a player with 65%~ cbet or how much better his cbet success is.

      Also I am not always sure which sizing to use on which board structures. Usually I use lower sizing on rainbow/dry boards and bigger on two tone boards.

      about raising, its weird coz I feel like I don't do it quite enough, I tend to check raise flop with nuts/strong draws/2OC+ backdoor or gutshot and in spots I know my range hits the board more often than vils like low numeric boards. In position I raise less coz sometimes I ellect to call coz vill is easilly floatable.
    • oblioo
      oblioo
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 02.10.2012 Posts: 338
      Originally posted by tolari
      Thing with cbeting is when i see a player folding 50% to cbet I just cbet and expect to have immiediate profit from this cbet.

      I mean, what besides being exploitable more easily are the downsides of cbetting too much?
      One big downside is that you probably are not extracting enough money with your value hands (sets, top-pair-weak-kicker, etc.).

      So for example, let's say you raise MP with 99 and the BTN flats, and so it's a heads-up pot and the flop is K93 two-tone (so you have middle set). Cbetting in this spot, ESPECIALLY vs. someone who folds 50% to cbets is a big mistake imo. Much better to c/r because then we get 2 bets in on the flop vs. villain's value range (Kx, flush draws), and maybe 1 bet vs. his air (44, 76s, etc.) that he would definitely fold if we cbet but maybe will bluff if we check. This is just one example; there are plenty more. Make sense?
    • tolari
      tolari
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2010 Posts: 761
      Sure makes sense, thanks!

      if vills are playing straightforward would you make the same play with AK on lets say K93two tone and A56 rainbow kinda bords?
      i mean check with intention to raise bet vs missed cbet

      coz its true that majority of field has really high bet vs missed cbet.

      would you say good regs will adjust to it and start raising my cbets much more often? is there a raise cbet % when its better to bet nuts to induce his raise or would you mix cbeting and check raising with nuts?

      also I tend to raise almost every cbet on low boards specially when I call open from utg,mp and i am on mp or Co, I think these raises are very respected. to balance that I thought its mandatory to raise also always with nuts or would you say its ok to have unbalanced cbet raising range at nl50?
    • oblioo
      oblioo
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 02.10.2012 Posts: 338
      Originally posted by tolari
      if vills are playing straightforward would you make the same play with AK on lets say K93two tone and A56 rainbow kinda bords?
      i mean check with intention to raise bet vs missed cbet
      coz its true that majority of field has really high bet vs missed cbet.
      These questions depend on specific positions among other things, but no, I definitely would not be going for a c/r with a hand as weak as AK on those boards; it will either be a cbet or a c/c (usually a cbet, though c/c on K93 is certainly reasonable).

      Originally posted by tolari
      would you say good regs will adjust to it and start raising my cbets much more often? is there a raise cbet % when its better to bet nuts to induce his raise or would you mix cbeting and check raising with nuts?
      Yes of course good regs will adjust and start bluff-raising you a lot if you continue to cbet 70%+. And your second question is too general; it depends a lot on the board texture, positions, how often villain is betting IP vs missed cbet, etc.

      Originally posted by tolari
      also I tend to raise almost every cbet on low boards specially when I call open from utg,mp and i am on mp or Co, I think these raises are very respected. to balance that I thought its mandatory to raise also always with nuts or would you say its ok to have unbalanced cbet raising range at nl50?
      If course it's okay to have unbalanced ranges as long as you're doing a good job exploiting :)
    • tolari
      tolari
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2010 Posts: 761
      thanks a lot oblioo!

      guyz there was a lot said about putting vills in coffin spots, but I also struggle when someone does it to me;d when someone does something way out of line I am playing pretty much a guessing game.

      I would love to see a video or hands with explanation and what you would do with other parts of your range, focused on spots when vill puts a lot of pressure on us.

      or a general process of thinking how to handle such spots from the perspective of player in a coffin spot. It's so easy to level myself in those...
    • oblioo
      oblioo
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 02.10.2012 Posts: 338
      Originally posted by tolari
      thanks a lot oblioo!

      guyz there was a lot said about putting vills in coffin spots, but I also struggle when someone does it to me;d when someone does something way out of line I am playing pretty much a guessing game.

      I would love to see a video or hands with explanation and what you would do with other parts of your range, focused on spots when vill puts a lot of pressure on us.

      or a general process of thinking how to handle such spots from the perspective of player in a coffin spot. It's so easy to level myself in those...
      stay tuned ;)
    • tolari
      tolari
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2010 Posts: 761
      oblioo, if we ever meet, drinks are on me.



      from 220k hands sample
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      Originally posted by tolari
      1.My biggest problem would be being results oriented with aggresive plays and big bluffs, when I get called down by a hand I assumed vill would fold.

      2.I hate the feeling of not being sure if he played me or if it is just variance or if my assumptions were wrong.

      3.I also want to loose the need to check cashier.
      1. How opponent specific are you being in these spots. Do you decide early in a hand that you will be barreling etc. Have you checked all the appropriate stats before you do so?

      2. Even if you do call down how can you be sure? Maybe you hit the top or the bottom of his range in this certain spot. Even if you do make the call you have to go back and reconstruct his range and see what the long term result would be. So if you base if you were right/wrong on that one calldown i believe you are making an error.

      3. Try setting specific session goals that you are working on each session strategy and/or mindset. so that you keep focus of the results. Gradually try to extend the time you check the cashier. Like once every 30 min and then play a game with yourself to see how long you can power through :)

      2 and 3 have the same results oriented core issue. Can you see how they relate?
    • tolari
      tolari
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2010 Posts: 761
      1. yep, I don't try huge bluffs on very bad loose players, I check ftcbet on each street, WTSD, folds to donk/check raise, cbet%, his preflop 3bet tendency vs me - it usually points out if vill entered aggro/loose mode against me

      2. I know being results oriented is wrong but to some extend you need to be to look criticly at your game, I mean I can make all assumptions I want and to never look twice at hands that I was on the less fortunate side of variance, but what if there is something fundamantaly wrong with my assumptions - I'll just end up making the same mistakes over and over.

      thats why I've spend around 15h last few days on my database, found a few costly leaks - probably I wouldnt do it(work on database) if my results were awesome lately - another mindset leak to work on...

      It's like reasearch and development, trail and error

      I don't tilt when I loose a hand I am sure I've played correctly.

      Its the mixture of uncertainty, disappointment, shame... now that I wrote all this I start to get your point a bit better I think.

      something like this I guess:

      I will hardly ever be 100% sure, I just have to do the play based on information avaiable that I think is most +EV, always take time to figure it out.

      Constantly work on database, evaluate hands(doesn't matter if winning or not), and pay attention to emotions that influence my game and try to let them go once I aknowledge they are there, if I can't I should stop the session.
    • oblioo
      oblioo
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 02.10.2012 Posts: 338
      Originally posted by tolari
      oblioo, if we ever meet, drinks are on me.
      can't wait :)
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      Originally posted by tolari

      1.I will hardly ever be 100% sure, I just have to do the play based on information avaiable that I think is most +EV, always take time to figure it out.

      2.Constantly work on database, evaluate hands(doesn't matter if winning or not), and pay attention to emotions that influence my game and try to let them go once I aknowledge they are there, if I can't I should stop the session.
      Hehe! I already stared typing a reply and then I saw you figured it out. Great!

      1.Try looking at it like this. If we call down in session we are getting more information. But the price we are paying for it is not in proportion to the information we're getting. And now if we know that and we still have the urge sometimes to make the call, we know it's emotional. So just try to keep an yey on it from now on and gather some info on those spots. If you get a strong urge, try talking your thought process out loud. The same as you did before when you wrote your thought process out.

      2. Exactly this is the work you want to put in because your getting the same or more information about the situation, and its for "free" :)
    • ains21
      ains21
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2011 Posts: 303
      Hey tolari, how's it going? Interesting blog: I think we may be at a pretty similar stage in our poker career (like you, I'm grinding NL50 high volume and shooting 100). Do you have skype? We should spend some time discussing hands, spots etc. and hopefully help each other crush it. I've added you on the community tool so if you accept I can send you my skype. GL~
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