honky shotting zoom200

    • honkytonky
      honkytonky
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2008 Posts: 496
      Hi everybody,

      I'm honkytonky, 25 years old, living in germany. I finished my bachelor-studies about 2 months ago and got some time now, till master starts.

      I started playing poker about 4 years ago on nl2 and 2 month later i shotted nl100. Unfortunatly thats the limit i played the last years. Had a short shot on nl200, dropped 15 buyins the first 15k hands and lost the motivation. So i was still grinding nl100 standard-tables just 4 fun without doing any theory, little volume etc. but was enough for a winrate of 7 bb/150k hands since summer 2012. There was a database-crash, so I dont have any statistics about the time before, but I was always able to beat nl100 without any problems.

      Now my main area are the zoom-tables. I started seriously grinding zoom100 and doing poker-theory in 2013, because my motivation raised and i have a lot of time for the next 3 month. I played about 100k hands in the last 2 month and my winrate swings between 3-4bb. My volume could be better, but i had some days of playing mtts for some variation.

      The last 1-2 weeks i felt very comfortable at zoom100 and so i tried a shot on nl200 the last days. The results: -13 stacks/5k hands... I dont have the feeling the tables are so much tougher than zoom100, but currently i am full of doubts.

      So 1. point i am struggling with is my mindset. On 200 Im always afraid of being exploited by the regulars. Im playing a tighter style (19/16-21/18) and im not sure if i can play this style profitable on 200, so i partly played looser than before and probably made some bad mistakes.
      Another point is that i am grinding a lot in downswings and only little in up-times. I cant really quit after dropping 5 stacks and go on grindin the next 8hrs, obv not A-game ;) .

      Specific poker-leaks are the oop-play. I think i am not good at passive defending the blinds and calling 3bets. The overall-problem is dealing with a lot of aggression, especially postflop (facing c-raises etc.)

      My goal for the next months and the bootcamp is to get the feeling i can beat zoom200. I hate being doubtful at playing. Of course I could move back to 100, but i problably would loose my motivation again. At this point i absolutely want to beat the new limit. I <3 zoom and always had in mind of playing nl200 some day, but didnt have the motivation to do something for.

      best regards
  • 12 replies
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Hey,

      HonkyTonky is such a great name :D

      Welcome to the bootcamp sir!

      Sucks that you ran bad when taking a shot. I think taking a shot is a very delicate thing though, so its important that we approach it correctly, could you tell us your current conditions for taking a shot, how you analyse the shot afterwards and how you deicde whether to move down after the session or try again.

      Our psychology guys will be able to give you some really good advice.

      FWIW, I think the 200nl games aren't really that tough, if you are having any problems with specific regs, why not post in our Kill The Reg section?

      Looking forward to this one too!

      Thanks
      Patrick
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      On 200 Im always afraid of being exploited by the regulars.

      grinding a lot in downswings and only little in up-times.
      Hey honky! (sounds funny) :D

      My name is Erik and I will be part of the coaching staff focusing on Tilt, A-Game, Mindset, and Lifecoaching. So if you have any questions you can just post them
      here and let me know in my Q&A thread if i take too long to reply. I'll be trolling around the forums but just so i don't miss anything. :)


      What are the specific spots where you get uncomfortable?

      Chasing losses and protecting wins is common in poker for sure. Why do you think that you do this when we should probably be doing the exact opposite?

      __________________
      Erik Stenqvist --> Tilt, A-Game, Mindset & Lifecoaching.

      Any questions about the mental side of poker? Just fire away!
      Skype: erik.stenqvist
      Email: Info@ErikStenqvist.com[/quote]
    • honkytonky
      honkytonky
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2008 Posts: 496
      Hi Erik, hi Pleno =)

      I really dont know why I chose that crazy name :D


      I didnt do any review afterwards, because i was in a bad mood and wanted to be away from poker after that dropping (yeah mindset.. ;) ). Today I did some theory and watched some of my played hands. I guess a main problem is fighting against so many pots. For example my 3bet-stat was way too low (58% i guess) and i made a lot of bad 4bet-bluffs (without blockers) and calldowns/bad postflop bluffs. My redline was breakeven after the first 2k hands and dopped continiously the next thousands of hands. I think that more players on 200 play a solid abc-style than i thought and on th other side there are some weak/fishy-players, so its not neccessary to go crazy.

      @Pleno: I read you played zoom200 and 500 for a while. Do you think its possible to achieve a solid winrate by playing good standard-poker on 200? I am not sure whether I have to make some adaptions, or can go on grinding my 20/17/6 style at first.

      I had a short session some minutes ago, ending up break-even because of 3-Bluff-barreling in 3bet pot and watching the money moves to opponents set. :f_mad: I think it was a bad bluff, but excluding that one it was okay.



      @Erik: I guess I feel the most uncomfortable when nothing works, I always have to/should to fold and get the feeling of being punished by the others. I cant really be objective in those cases, but still go on grinding, because i want to chase. Another point is the overall situation. I am not sure of beating the new limit or wasting my money.
      I think I dont really accept the fact of being down because of badluck, While playing Im thinking it has to get better the next xk hands and I just have to go on. I hate the feeling of quitting after dropping 10 stacks and have to get some money back. I subsconsciuosly know that i dont play my best game, but the thoughts of claiming back my luck are in foreground.
      In the case I'm winning quickly some stacks, I am afraid of loosing it and because of that pressure I maybe start playing worse than before.
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Yeah, especially if you want to have aspirations of moving to 500 then its important we think out side of the box, don't auto fold our bb when UTG opens and think of creative ways to win pots. Anyway, we don't want to play tight, we are 6max soldiers and we will destroy the regs :D
    • honkytonky
      honkytonky
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2008 Posts: 496
      Ill be working on it :f_cool:

      Had another short session.. and got some hands:


      Villian: 29/9, c-r flop 33% (1/3)
      I think he would open JJ/TT, so his range belongs to 33, JT, maybe Jx and some draws/bluffs. The main value comes from draws, Jx and bluffs, so I want to have the equity-shift, let him commit on the turn and ship any non- :club: . Going broke on the flop maybe better, because there are some scarecards for a single J?

      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Hand abspielen

      $1/$2 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:
      BU:
      $310.73
      SB:
      $425.90
      BB:
      $211.68
      MP2:
      $161.00
      MP3:
      $200.00
      CO (Hero):
      $200.00


      Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K.
      MP2 calls $2.00, MP3 folds, Hero raises to $8.00, 3 folds, MP2 calls $6.00.

      Flop: ($19) 3, T, J (2 players)
      MP2 checks, Hero bets $14.00, MP2 raises to $28.00, Hero calls $14.00.

      Turn: ($75) 5 (2 players)
      MP2 bets $48.00, Hero raises to $164.00(All-In), MP2 calls $77.00(All-In).

      Final Pot: $364.



      Another situation vs laggy-reg. 27/23/8. He raised cbets 2/3 times.
      I think he would barrel a flushdraw, so he is not repping that much on the river. I think the fact is interesting that he is raising 33 in this spot. So his raising-range probably is very (too) wide. Whats the best way to exploit it. Only bet for value and call down? Moving back air-hands too?


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Hand abspielen

      $1/$2 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:
      BU:
      $26.47
      SB:
      $844.30
      BB:
      $201.00
      MP2:
      $327.57
      MP3 (Hero):
      $324.40
      CO:
      $246.89


      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K, K.
      MP2 folds, Hero raises to $6.00, CO calls $6.00, 3 folds, 2 folds, BB folds.

      Flop: ($15) 7, 4, 9 (2 players)
      Hero bets $10.00, CO raises to $30.00, Hero calls $20.00.

      Turn: ($75) 9 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks.

      River: ($75) 6 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $62.00, Hero calls $62.00.

      Final Pot: $199.
      Results follow:

      CO shows two pairs, nines and threes(3 3).
      Hero shows two pairs, kings and nines(K K).

      Hero wins with two pairs, kings and nines(K K).
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      1. I didnt do any review afterwards, because i was in a bad mood and wanted to be away from poker

      2. I am not sure of beating the new limit or wasting my money.

      3. I am afraid of loosing it and because of that pressure I maybe start playing worse than before.
      Hey!

      Great work so far :)

      1. This will always be something that will make post session analysis harder. Facing the issue head on and know that the worse you feel, the better you will feel after doing it and it also helps you let go of a bad session. But you will have to learn the practice of will powering your way through the negative emotions. We do that by practicing it every single day. We might not be able to when we have our worst session, but on the good and ok/slightly bad one we can. Then we practice on those until you improve on that skill. You have to change or get better at it by putting in the work. Because there will always be another bad session, the game wont change. You have to :)

      2. Same here, talk with other regs or a strategy coach about what they think is lacking in your game. If you in fact are. When you know pick the number one issue and put you heart and soul into that particular area until you feel comfortable and strong in all areas of it.

      3. Can you explain a bit more about this? Why do you think you are putting so much emphasis on short term result when we know that we have so little control over it?

      Basically all of that can be summed up with. Work hard! :)

      Cheers!
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi honkytonky, I hope you are well?

      Just a nudge to encourage you to keep your thread current. :)

      Perhaps post how you are getting on with Erik's suggestions?

      Have fun,

      Mal.
    • sirrybob
      sirrybob
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 15.01.2012 Posts: 46
      KK hand:
      My first question when you flat flop would be, are there any turn/rivers on which you plan to fold. Because if not, then waiting for the "equity-shift" really isn't doing you much good.
      The advantage of calling is that your opponent might continue betting with a hand that he was checkraise folding on the flop like 89 Q9 KQ or a weak flushdraw. In any case, I think your play is fine, but not sure the reason you stated is very relevant.

      Your adjustment vs an opponent who is bluffraising these kind of flop-textures in position should be to cbet less air vs him, and when you do cbet air like Adx or Kdx with a blocker, 3bet his raise. Of course you will also be calling down lighter, as his range for raising isn't just sets and flushdraws, and he will probably continue bluffing flush cards often, so it's going to be hard to fold an overpair vs him even if a 3flush comes.

      Take all this with a grain of salt however as he knows you caught him being out of line and might adjust the way he plays vs you, so you should pay attention to that.
    • honkytonky
      honkytonky
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2008 Posts: 496
      Hey guys,

      Thx for your answers!

      @bob: there are not really any cards i can fold to, so youre point makes more sense than mine. I saw lots of minraises with hands like toppair, so maybe getting it in on the flop might be better to avoid scarecards for Jx?! What are your experiences with facing minraises?

      Ps. currently i am on skiing vacation, so no time for poker, but in a couple of days i will go on working to become a soldier ;)

      Regards
    • ErikStenqvist
      ErikStenqvist
      Global
      Joined: 14.01.2013 Posts: 431
      Friendly bump ;)
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Hi soldier, you gone awol on us? :)

      How is the course going for you? More on the fun side, how was the skiing? :)
    • honkytonky
      honkytonky
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.11.2008 Posts: 496
      Hi gadget =) ,

      skiing was great!!! Always love it ;)

      I focused a lot on theory and the material delivered during the bootcamp, the last weaks and so I didnt have any spetacular grinding experiences I could be posting. I decided to start the big grind after the bootcamp and I am excited to test my new knowledge on a solid samplesize.