Overshove river vs reg

    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Hey,

      Villain is a member of the bootcamp and somebody I have battled with quite a lot. He is I would consider a good reg, but considers me a strong reg who likes to bluff a lot and is running him over, so I considered him to perhaps hero call me wider to show me I can't overrun him.

      I figured on river as he flat from the Sb he probably has a bunch of AJs/KJs/QJs and then perhaps sometimes Q10s kinda hands that would call down and fold river.

      On river he has €393 behind, thoughts?

      €2/€4 No Limit Holdem
      Prima
      5 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG pleno1 (€466.50) 117bb
      CO Player6 (€400) 100bb
      BTN Player1 (€248.75) 62bb
      SB Player2 (€457) 114bb
      BB Player3 (€610.84) 153bb

      Pre-Flop: (€6, 5 players) pleno1 is UTG 9:heart: 9:club:
      pleno1 raises to €12, 2 folds, Player2 calls €10, 1 fold

      Flop: 9:diamond: J:club: 4:heart: (€28, 2 players)
      Player2 checks, pleno1 bets €16, Player2 calls €16

      Turn: 3:spade: (€60, 2 players)
      Player2 checks, pleno1 bets €36, Player2 calls €36

      River: 6:diamond: (€132, 2 players)
      Player2 checks, pleno1 bets €402.50
  • 12 replies
    • Beuaaaaaaaah
      Beuaaaaaaaah
      Black
      Joined: 08.07.2009 Posts: 267
      He will almost always fold it, if he's a reg, he won't call with worse, or maybe 44, but I think tricky lines like that, if you don't do it often, are most of the time done with the nuts. The guys doing it is just trying to level you. ^^
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Don't think I'd call Jx either first time seeing you do that. If he considers you a strong reg, he'll think you know his image and consider this too ridic overshove to be a bluff imo.
    • Kingsurprise
      Kingsurprise
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 26.04.2008 Posts: 663
      wouldn`t you bluff cheaper like a normale overbet about ~200 or something? This overshoves are 99,9% nuts imo. I snapfold here without strong reasons. But I dont play this limit regulary.
      But isnt it a good bluffshove if everyone is folding?^^
    • IronPumper
      IronPumper
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.01.2008 Posts: 14,894
      the overbet is pretty big - i you wanan overbet, then I would rahter do it here like 1,5x.
    • mko101
      mko101
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.01.2009 Posts: 2,160
      Don't like it, simply because you don't barrel the turn too wide, there are no draws and your bluff range is reduced significantly. You won't get called too frequently and overshoving with AA there would be probably an overplay.

      Definitely like it more on Td turn.
    • BC1989RF
      BC1989RF
      Platinum
      Joined: 09.04.2010 Posts: 845
      dont think the spot is v interesting from your pov tbh - we have top of our range and if we're bluffing that spot its an overbet. overbets work great in this configuration: nuts:air range vs bluffcatching range given position + board texture. although he can have top and middle sest.

      the spot is much more interesting from villains pov - bottom calling range; what hands are best to call etc.

      dunno if youre value shoving KK+.
      he has to defend 25% of his range from a gto/balanced pov. his river range is prolly sth like 30-35combos.

      prolly has 99/jj always.
      Id say AJs > AA in this spot given how narrow your value shoving rnage shud be but bit better to block AA + JJ.

      so {sets, AJs} thats 8 combos for the desired 25%ish.
    • mko101
      mko101
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.01.2009 Posts: 2,160
      I'd rather overshove with a bluff and bet pot or so with our hand for the reasons I stated before.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by BC1989RF
      dont think the spot is v interesting from your pov tbh - we have top of our range and if we're bluffing that spot its an overbet. overbets work great in this configuration: nuts:air range vs bluffcatching range given position + board texture. although he can have top and middle sest.

      the spot is much more interesting from villains pov - bottom calling range; what hands are best to call etc.

      dunno if youre value shoving KK+.
      he has to defend 25% of his range from a gto/balanced pov. his river range is prolly sth like 30-35combos.

      prolly has 99/jj always.
      Id say AJs > AA in this spot given how narrow your value shoving rnage shud be but bit better to block AA + JJ.

      so {sets, AJs} thats 8 combos for the desired 25%ish.
      Looking from this pov if villain has 44 in his range he has very easy time folding all his one pair hands and that can't be good for hero.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Anyway, everyone seems to agree. So did you get called light or not? :f_biggrin:
    • jakelamotta
      jakelamotta
      Basic
      Joined: 11.01.2013 Posts: 10
      There is certainly nothing wrong with doing this for value, if you think you would never get called by anything worse than 44 you should probably exploit him by bluffing too much. He needs to call you about 25% of the time to make you indifferent to bluffing/not bluffing. If he has more than 6 non set combos (I give him 2 set combos) he will be folding too much calling only sets. Now you could argue that he folds too much to any bluff size and they have higher EV for you but it shouldnt be the case if he's a good reg.

      Overall I like to have this is in my strategy (not a very wide range though) and I would not recommend only doing it with bluffs although you could certainly bluff more than optimally, I would.
    • ZioMio
      ZioMio
      Basic
      Joined: 04.03.2013 Posts: 14
      I think I would be much more inclined to do this on a draw heavy board where draws missed then on dry board. On wet boards we are going to have much more bluffs in our range then on this completly dry board. I think a reg is just going to shrug fold river to often and 44 youre going to stack anyway on river regardless of what you bet.
    • IronPumper
      IronPumper
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.01.2008 Posts: 14,894
      Originally posted by ZioMio
      I think I would be much more inclined to do this on a draw heavy board where draws missed then on dry board. On wet boards we are going to have much more bluffs in our range then on this completly dry board. I think a reg is just going to shrug fold river to often and 44 youre going to stack anyway on river regardless of what you bet.
      yeah, our bluffingrange consists "only" of bout 30 combos - would be better when there would also a FD or BDFD bust...
      But this is clear