Supaaa nasty lines

    • BC1989RF
      BC1989RF
      Gold
      Joined: 09.04.2010 Posts: 845
      Alright
      I thought id post something about exploiting our own weaknesses etc instead of posting stats.

      So, what are the 3 spots you are the most uncomfortable with? (3bet IP, sqz, c/r flop, overbets etc..). Try to be as accurate as possible.

      Here are mine:
      1. blinds sqz me 16bb being pfr 100bb effective
      (cant 4bet bluff ffs! calling's meh ...)

      2. BTN/CO 4bet 22ish bb vs my SB we play 130bb deep...

      3. being delayed c/r'ed after i capped my range/checked one street.
      Here's one...

      IPoker, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      UTG: $86.63 (173.3 bb)
      MP: $77.33 (154.7 bb)
      CO: $39.39 (78.8 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $61.48 (123 bb)
      SB: $56.78 (113.6 bb)
      BB: $12.75 (25.5 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with K J
      UTG raises to $1.50, MP folds, CO calls $1.50, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, UTG calls $4.50, CO folds

      Flop: ($14.25) T 5 2 (2 players)
      UTG checks, Hero bets $8, UTG calls $8

      Turn: ($30.25) J (2 players)
      UTG checks, Hero checks

      River: ($30.25) 7 (2 players)
      UTG checks, Hero bets $23.34, UTG raises to $72.63 and is all-in, Hero folds

      Realllllllllllllllllly pal???


      -Ben.
  • 10 replies
    • mko101
      mko101
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.01.2009 Posts: 2,160
      That hand has no consistency and wrong betsizing all over the place.

      I'm probably uncomfortable getting minraised by a fish doing it with a wide range and I have like weak TP or strong 2nd pair.

      And definitely calling 3bets OOP and calling 4bets - just need to figure out my gameplan, get better at predicting their ranges.
    • Kingsurprise
      Kingsurprise
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 26.04.2008 Posts: 663
      iam co flopping a weak toppair and get trippledonk on dry boards from bb, no reads with what he does that. What is your callingpoint? 100bb stack, solid stats
      for example board:
      q7239 rainbow
    • x3mwisp
      x3mwisp
      Platinum
      Joined: 31.03.2009 Posts: 3,604
      I also don't know how to call 3bets oop. I play only 100-120bb stacks. I heard you can play 4bet/fold or fold oop but sometimes it makes total sense to be calling the 3bets. Just playing shallow oop doesn't seem very strong for me. I'm either too loose/spewy or too tight.
    • franeczek
      franeczek
      Global
      Joined: 22.03.2009 Posts: 2,439
      I am super uncomfortable in 4b pots. I never call 4bets but people do and it makes me like meh if I don't hit strong.
    • Lackoogcb
      Lackoogcb
      Black
      Joined: 16.04.2008 Posts: 1,648
      wow man, i love this thread! good idea

      If a huge fish limps I isolate them very wide 5bb (i have pos, i have skill, i have better range -> so i want more money) but the problem some regs I don't know why the f*ck but want the fish out and play with me :) dumbass... so they 3bet me 14-16bb... First i was like okay thats make no sense why would KK do that, so i shipped my QJo and get called by KK... Then I was like okay this is only for value by dumbasses, so folded everything, but then few times shipped my AA (thought they can only call with good hands, will not 3B/fold 16bb w QQ) I get a bunch of folds... So now i'm confused... we can't 4bet bluff vs ~15bb and we cannot call it, like BC1989RF said it's just meh :D so what should we do? fold everything is too exploitable, should we 4bet shoves some bluffs?
    • BC1989RF
      BC1989RF
      Gold
      Joined: 09.04.2010 Posts: 845
      oops somehow wasnt bookmarked to this one

      thanks for the answer guys.

      Originally posted by mko101
      That hand has no consistency and wrong betsizing all over the place.
      rlly? why?
      not sure about turn check but think i get called only by better
      thought he would lead all the better hands on the river making his river range look like Tx, 88-99 mostly and would realize my line + big river sizing looks bluffy.

      so far its been a lot of preflop spots like playing 3bets oop and playing vs 4bets.

      @Lackoogcb: not sure to understand your questions.

      @Kingsuprise:
      iam co flopping a weak toppair and get trippledonk on dry boards from bb, no reads with what he does that. What is your callingpoint? 100bb stack, solid stats for example board: q7239 rainbow


      basic plan is to call 2 and have in mind that they usually c/r top of their range so might jam Q8s by the river as a bluff. the runout you described is act pretty good to do so imo.
    • Lackoogcb
      Lackoogcb
      Black
      Joined: 16.04.2008 Posts: 1,648
      Originally posted by BC1989RF
      @Lackoogcb: not sure to understand your questions.

      fish limps, we iso 5bb, reg 3bets us 15bb, what should we do?
      - we can't really call
      - we can't really 4bet, maybe shove but thats just too expensive
      - fold every single time?
    • fitzinator18
      fitzinator18
      Basic
      Joined: 10.10.2012 Posts: 447
      Originally posted by Lackoogcb
      wow man, i love this thread! good idea

      so they 3bet me 14-16bb... First i was like okay thats make no sense why would KK do that, so i shipped my QJo and get called by KK...
      at 100BB stacks if you want to understand their range i would just CIB-fold so like he squeezes to 16bb over your 5x just make it 28x and fold to a shove. seems semi-spewey but in reality the first time you do this it looks like you have little fold equity and people arent gonna jam on you light as you look insanely strong yourself and face it when someone clicks it back on you and you shove air and they have AA you just feel like a pumpkin, they feel the same. they are embarrassed if they shove on you light there so i wouldnt sweat it. QJo plays lolbad vs their calling range anyway in your particular spot so i wouldnt worry about the fact that shoving you get to realise showdown equity or whatever because you're such a ridic dog anyway.


      @OP in 1st hand...why are we betting lolbig OTR, seems like his range is pretty Tx heavy given we expect him to lead 2p+ hands OTR but unless dude has a tendancy to make hero calls i don't think betting over 2/3 pot here is optimal. i'd prob just bet half pot

      I think i'll have to think about spots i find toughest, there are plenty though. one for sure is e.g. random fish who'd just gotten to table limps, i make it 4x with 77 or so, he flats, flop 825 he just donk bets potpotpot. doesnt really matter what hand i have readless those spots are pretty headacheful. also i think a bigger leak of mine is understanding a persons range really well but not understanding the frequency they will fold well at all. resulting in me playing pretty weak against them even when they cap their range.

      oh yeah and vs an agressive BVB 3bettor i dont think i play well from the sb against with hands like 89s which i know i have to open but then its like ??? when he 3bets cuz 4b/folding sucks cuz we have 89s but peeling oop isnt too appealing either
    • BC1989RF
      BC1989RF
      Gold
      Joined: 09.04.2010 Posts: 845
      Originally posted by Lackoogcb
      Originally posted by BC1989RF
      @Lackoogcb: not sure to understand your questions.

      fish limps, we iso 5bb, reg 3bets us 15bb, what should we do?
      - we can't really call
      - we can't really 4bet, maybe shove but thats just too expensive
      - fold every single time?
      well if you think this villain is doing it way too much, first adjustements are to iso a bit tighter AND to iso sth like 3.5bb or even only 3bb.
      also would be very careful to what he does that with: players can have v different approaches i know pat like to jsut call kqo ajo ato stuff to keep fish in and would 3bet suited garbages or a7o or sth.

      to answer the orginial question: think i would develop a "only-call" approach vs 15bb approaches at 100bb. depending on what hands he 3bet bluffs with id prolly minraise or jam over his cbets (dont think theres much room to float in 30bb 3bet pot on the flop...)

      but overall i dont think this spot should bother us that much given how regs <200nl stay ool when a fish alread limped in. in my experience at least.
    • BC1989RF
      BC1989RF
      Gold
      Joined: 09.04.2010 Posts: 845
      [quote]Originally posted by fitzinator18
      Originally posted by Lackoogcb
      wow man, i love this thread! good idea

      @OP in 1st hand...why are we betting lolbig OTR, seems like his range is pretty Tx heavy given we expect him to lead 2p+ hands OTR but unless dude has a tendancy to make hero calls i don't think betting over 2/3 pot here is optimal. i'd prob just bet half pot
      i just thought hed know i knew that and making a stupidly big bet would make him call more than a 1/2 bet. this is probably the way i would bluff too although i find it pretty sexy to make it just under half pot to look like a value bet ^^

      I think i'll have to think about spots i find toughest, there are plenty though. one for sure is e.g. random fish who'd just gotten to table limps, i make it 4x with 77 or so, he flats, flop 825 he just donk bets potpotpot. doesnt really matter what hand i have readless those spots are pretty headacheful. also i think a bigger leak of mine is understanding a persons range really well but not understanding the frequency they will fold well at all. resulting in me playing pretty weak against them even when they cap their range.

      oh i used to have the same problem. call call call is generally bad unless villain has like >60% limp/call range and does this very often.
      cause they can keep bettin 86 on 843 KJ or sth.
      what i usually do with 77 or a5 is i just minraise the flop; usually buys us the sd pretty cheaply AND we can potentially decide to turn our hand into a bluff on say the previous turn-river runout.
      alos, you consider a very specific part of your range: the exact middling hands which will be 3rd/4th pair by the river v often. but this doesnt mean we cant go crazy wwith air too vs this guy. specially since our bluffs could potentially be very cheap (i just minr in those case). also, some pot the flop very often but turn their hands face up turn with their sizing; i like call air with like gutter, 2OC or a bdfd and wait for extra info.

      oh yeah and vs an agressive BVB 3bettor i dont think i play well from the sb against with hands like 89s which i know i have to open but then its like ??? when he 3bets cuz 4b/folding sucks cuz we have 89s but peeling oop isnt too appealing either

      i just open much tighter tbh. still fodling 89s oop although its a great hand to have if you want to develop a c/r a c/shove gameplan otf vs this guy. any Ax Kx could potentially be a 4bet.
      also, you could start by implementing a limping strat. never worked out the ranges myself it but this could be an option.