How to resist the temptation of calling

    • tommygecko
      tommygecko
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2012 Posts: 1,229
      Very often I've been caught in situations where I know I'm not supposed to call, but i have a strong hand so I'm like fk it just call and of course they show up with what i expected them to have. I play at 10NL at 888 (fish haven) so of course sometimes they show up with worse hands, but I've lost several big pots when I know it's a rather easy fold. Like for example I have Tc9c and flop a flush. PFR cbets, I raise and another guy cold 3bets all in. Or when I have an overpair and get check raised. Could have increased my win rate by 10 bb/100 if I don't make such loose calls. But at the heat of the moment I find it so much harder to fold. I think it is partly my hate to lose mentality (I hate to lose the pot so I call and pray I win) but that only results in me losing more.

      Anyone of you have this problem? When you go through your HH and find so many spots where you should have just folded and could have saved hundreds of bbs.
  • 12 replies
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,303
      Hey tommygecko,

      First you need to make sure you are distinguishing correctly between spots where you should fold and spots where you just get coolered.

      I doubt you should fold T-high flush on non-paired board very often. Overpair vs a check-raise on the other hand, usually an ok spot to find a fold depending on villain/action.
    • awesomeo
      awesomeo
      Silver
      Joined: 09.11.2009 Posts: 303
      Also if you use tracking program you may take a look at your river call efficiency to see how much you win for every dollar you call on the river.
    • tommygecko
      tommygecko
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2012 Posts: 1,229
      Originally posted by w34z3l
      Hey tommygecko,

      First you need to make sure you are distinguishing correctly between spots where you should fold and spots where you just get coolered.

      I doubt you should fold T-high flush on non-paired board very often. Overpair vs a check-raise on the other hand, usually an ok spot to find a fold depending on villain/action.
      True about the T high flush but I had a strong gut feeling villain had the nut flush :f_mad:

      And I believe things like 'It's a cooler' or "I ran bad" are too commonly used as excuses for poor results.

      Or maybe that's why I feel so bad now, perhaps it's the truth I ran bad, but there's no way to prove it. All in EV graphs only consider all-ins...
    • PhoenixPhreak
      PhoenixPhreak
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2011 Posts: 335
      I've been having the same problem.

      What a good friend of mine suggested was this:

      Check each hand in an equity-calculator. Work out what their range is and see the odds yourself. Then plug in what the pot odds are offering.

      By doing this often, either before a session or after a session, you'll start to see not just that you are playing wrong, but why you are playing wrong (going against the facts you just discovered).

      It won't make you suddenly stop, but it will retrain you to think clearly about more situations and to know in your head what you know in your gut but can't control at the emotional level.


      Before doing this I often found it a battle of 'I know I'm beat but I feel like there is a chance I'm being bluffed' or 'I just want to see what they have' or even some other random click when I just know it's wrong. But I'm slowly now thinking about their ranges and the odds and it puts the power in my thinking and away from emotions.

      Good luck!
    • tommygecko
      tommygecko
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2012 Posts: 1,229
      Originally posted by awesomeo
      Also if you use tracking program you may take a look at your river call efficiency to see how much you win for every dollar you call on the river.
      How do you do that with HEM2?
    • daun666
      daun666
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 540
      Originally posted by tommygecko
      True about the T high flush but I had a strong gut feeling villain had the nut flush :f_mad:

      And I believe things like 'It's a cooler' or "I ran bad" are too commonly used as excuses for poor results.

      Or maybe that's why I feel so bad now, perhaps it's the truth I ran bad, but there's no way to prove it. All in EV graphs only consider all-ins...
      lol, had a strong gut feeling :D

      You have pot odds when deciding if you want to call.
      Now put villain on range(this is hardest part), and calculate equity vs his range using pokerstove or equilab.

      If equity > pot odds than call if not than fold.
    • tommygecko
      tommygecko
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2012 Posts: 1,229
      Originally posted by daun666
      Originally posted by tommygecko
      True about the T high flush but I had a strong gut feeling villain had the nut flush :f_mad:

      And I believe things like 'It's a cooler' or "I ran bad" are too commonly used as excuses for poor results.

      Or maybe that's why I feel so bad now, perhaps it's the truth I ran bad, but there's no way to prove it. All in EV graphs only consider all-ins...
      lol, had a strong gut feeling :D

      You have pot odds when deciding if you want to call.
      Now put villain on range(this is hardest part), and calculate equity vs his range using pokerstove or equilab.

      If equity > pot odds than call if not than fold.
      Yea I guess I should think more about pot odds then, rather than gut feel. Haha.

      But for me everytime a fish raises all of a sudden it's like they have the near nuts :f_mad:
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,303
      Originally posted by tommygecko
      But for me everytime a fish raises all of a sudden it's like they have the near nuts :f_mad:
      This is usually true. When you have a hand as strong as a flush though, opponents could be raising worse flushes, sets, 2-pair etc.
    • tommygecko
      tommygecko
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2012 Posts: 1,229
      Well my RCE is 1.02 over 5.3k hands at NL10. What is a good value for RCE? 1.02 looks quite low I'm probably calling at spots where I should just fold.

      Anyway do you guys run equilab/pokerstove while playing a session and use it in difficult spots?
    • EnterG
      EnterG
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2010 Posts: 632
      I 've read somewhere (don't remember where) that if you are between a call and a fold you better fold :s_rolleyes:
    • awesomeo
      awesomeo
      Silver
      Joined: 09.11.2009 Posts: 303
      Good you found the RCE. 1.02 is obviously very low - that's 2 cents profit for every 1 dollar you call. So basicaly you are only increasing variance by calling rivers with your current frequencies. I'm not sure what a good stat should be like. I'm having around 1.6 now and it was 2 before but I have no idea to be honest. Important thing is that 1.02 is almost negative profit - If I'm getting the stat right it means that you would get the same result if you fold any river where you face a bet, including when you have the nuts! That should tell you something.



      However my advice would be not to focus too much on spots where you have second best and villain have the nuts because that is not where the leak is. Chances are that villain would call when the situation is reversed so this is not what really changes the score. Filter out you river calls, apply them to all reports and go to the showdown report. I'm pretty sure you lose ton of money with A high, 1 pair and 2 pair when calling rivers. I would also guess that your WTSD is well above 25, right?
    • amanofhisword
      amanofhisword
      Basic
      Joined: 10.03.2013 Posts: 41
      hello,

      Although I am a tournament player, I think I can answer your question.

      I make calls sometimes knowing I am behind but I don't do it often.

      maybe here is a list of questions you can ask yourself before you make the call.

      1. am I behind? be honest and answer if the answer is yes then fold.
      2. how often do I have to be right to make profit making this call in this situation based on my pot odds? 2 out of 3? does it feel like this is 1 of those 2 times? yes? call. no? fold.
      3. do I gain anything by making this call even if i am behind that will make them check next time and not try to bluff me (on the river lets say) yes? then maybe you can call and even if you turned out to be behind, it might profit you in future games against them (or future hands)

      but usually when you feel behind you are behind so just let your hand go

      good luck at the tables