raising OOP and c-bets

    • deezer79
      deezer79
      Silver
      Joined: 13.06.2011 Posts: 191
      Having trouble with this but can't resist c-bet to keep betting lead. Getting it all the time lately when an entire table limps in, I'm in the small blind with AK/AQs so I raise a chunk. I don't want to scare people off and shove 25bb into a bunch of limpers so I will raise to 6-8bb (depending on how many in pot). Trouble is I will miss entirely and feel like I have to c-bet...is this a winning play? With the c-bet I have put half my stack in with nothing but ace-high to show for it. Sometimes it works but lately it just isn't and I have to abandon the pot. Is this just hurting me in the short term and should I carry on being aggressive? I know just calling isn't an option and if I raise too little I'll have to play against the whole table.
  • 3 replies
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 5,877
      I assume you are talking of hyper turbo games? I would say optimal play with those hands is going to be shoving versus many limpers. E.g. with 3 limpers pot is going to be 4.5bb+antes so actually our risk:reward ratio is already good. Also in low stake games you can be called by many weaker Ax and even some KJ. If someone call with some small to medium pocket its not bad at all to flip with much extra chips from limpers. I would also shove hands like JJ, TT, which easily have bad flops. Maybe also QQ, but KK+ would be likely better to raise smaller. If you raise to 6-8bb and get called you are actually pot committed on most flops as you only have one pot sized bet left or bit more.
    • deezer79
      deezer79
      Silver
      Joined: 13.06.2011 Posts: 191
      The problem is with the c-bet. I could put an 8BB raise out there OOP and get one or two callers. Once I miss the flop a c-bet would mean I've invested half my stack into the pot.

      Shoving would have won me the pot no doubt but with such a big hand, I want some action. To shove around 25bb pre-flop into 6-7 limpers just looks too strong. No one is limping for deception with aces into some many people so I have to assume they all have mediocre hands or small pairs.

      The game is usually single table turbos.
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      You are comfortable shoving for 10 bb at 1.5 bb in blind money, right? It's not an overbet to shove 25 bb at 5 bb or more preflop.

      Your alternative to pushing is to make a smaller raise and then try to play postflop. In general, it's harder to do this when you are out of position since you don't get as many free cards, or people betting into you when you have a strong hand. So, it is more reasonable to make a larger push preflop when you would be out of position postflop.

      If you do choose to make a smaller raise, pay attention to the number of callers. If there are several callers, and you totally miss a board that would hit a lot of hands (not something like 333 or 822), usually just give up on the hand. If there is just one caller and you missed, this is uncomfortable but your hand is probably still ahead, and you probably have outs if not. So, it's a bit too weak to give up automatically. Play poker.