While starting tbl, an interesting spot to explore

    • IronPumper
      IronPumper
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.01.2008 Posts: 14,903
      $2/$4 No Limit Holdem
      PokerStars
      2 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      SB adam001 ($449.81) 112bb
      BB Hero ($401.73) 100bb

      Pre-Flop: ($6, 2 players) Hero is BB 9:heart: 6:diamond:
      adam001 raises to $8, Hero raises to $28, adam001 calls $20

      Flop: 2:heart: 9:club: 5:spade: ($56, 2 players)
      Hero bets $32.75, adam001 calls $32.75

      Turn: J:heart: ($121.50, 2 players)
      Hero bets $78.07, adam001 calls $78.07

      River: 4:diamond: ($277.64, 2 players)
      Hero checks, adam001 goes all-in $310.99


      It was more of the beginning of startin this tbl with him
      so no real history.
      But I know Villain ad a little bit his approach.
      He is imo a very good player and likely atm on of the best vid-producers on leggo.
      He is a good handreader, has a lot of clue how to balance his range and absolutely capable of thin valuebetting (mb even sometimes too thin, Idk...)

      I have here some questions before I post a range-estimation for him which willl be anyways likelypretty off cause Im yet not the best hu-player at the world
      but wanna improve this part of my game cause I start lots of tbls...


      1.)can he easily valuejam any 9?
      2.) does it make sense to him to turn anything into a bluff which has SD-value,
      such as busted BackdoorNUtFD or a low pair? - my guess would be no,
      but still wanna ask
      3.) guess my turnbet is all rigth cause I have bazillion of air here (I 3b Hu vs. Minraises bout 22%)

      4.) as palyed, any rivercard you would go ahead and jam as a bluff, so you would turn your weak sd into a bluff then?

      ok, now my range-estimation:

      AJs,A9s,K9s,Q9s,J9s,T9s,97s+,KsJs,KcJc,QsJs,QcJc,KhTh,QhTh,QsTs,QcTc,JsTs,JcTc,Qh8h,Js8s,Jc8c,Th8h,Ts8s,Tc8c,Qh7h,Js7s,Jc7c,Th7h,8h7h,8h6h,7h6h,AJo,A9o,K9o,Q9o,J9o,T9o
  • 9 replies
    • IronPumper
      IronPumper
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.01.2008 Posts: 14,903
      no one?^^


      too tough? :s_p:
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      In the car atm so will go through more in details later.
      But first, w/o history 96o in your 3B range?
    • IronPumper
      IronPumper
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.01.2008 Posts: 14,903
      Originally posted by Dublimax
      In the car atm so will go through more in details later.

      ok, cool

      But first, w/o history 96o in your 3B range?
      as a default, I defend vs BTN_minraises more or less like 70% (50%are in my coldcallrange and bout 20% in my 3-range).
      Furhtermore I 3bet early on pretty polarized, so that 96o is oftentimes in my 3b-range.

      How much do you defend as a default (infoless on how villain plays hu) at Hu vs. BTN-Minraises and how do you construct then your calling/3b-ranges...?
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      Hey,

      Very interesting spot indeed and here are my thoughts on it:

      1) I don't think he should jam any 9 for value, I think his value range should be like TJ+ for value and for bluffs pretty much the hands you listed off.

      This is like such a sick leveling spot, because he is going to have a ton of gutshots and oesd floats on the turn and I think he should be calling some/shoving some. But vs 7bb 3bet I also think he will have a bunch of sets. So basically my point is his range on the river will be fairly balanced both ways imo.

      2) no I don't think so.

      3) I think turn bet is fine also

      4) I think maybe an A or K are like the only two good river cards to jam. But this hand leads me to believe we need to have a strong river checking range. My current thoughts are, I don't think it quite makes sense to check everything on the river but I think we need to split our range somehow so both checking and betting are fairly balanced/good make sense. If you want we can discuss this more on skype.

      5) Mad respect for playing someone that's very good. But I'm thinking since he will have a pretty big edge postflop ip, we should maybe reduce our 70% defend range to more like 50-60% so it's a bit stronger vs such a tough opponent. What do you think?
    • IronPumper
      IronPumper
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.01.2008 Posts: 14,903
      Originally posted by serverm07
      Hey,

      Very interesting spot indeed and here are my thoughts on it:

      1) I don't think he should jam any 9 for value, I think his value range should be like TJ+ for value and for bluffs pretty much the hands you listed off.

      This is like such a sick leveling spot, because he is going to have a ton of gutshots and oesd floats on the turn and I think he should be calling some/shoving some. But vs 7bb 3bet I also think he will have a bunch of sets. So basically my point is his range on the river will be fairly balanced both ways imo.

      2) no I don't think so.

      3) I think turn bet is fine also

      4) I think maybe an A or K are like the only two good river cards to jam. But this hand leads me to believe we need to have a strong river checking range. My current thoughts are, I don't think it quite makes sense to check everything on the river but I think we need to split our range somehow so both checking and betting are fairly balanced/good make sense. If you want we can discuss this more on skype.

      5) Mad respect for playing someone that's very good. But I'm thinking since he will have a pretty big edge postflop ip, we should maybe reduce our 70% defend range to more like 50-60% so it's a bit stronger vs such a tough opponent. What do you think?
      Hey,
      thx so far for answering:)

      @1.)
      In the meanwhile I have shown this hand some rly strong players who play 1k-2k 6max, but also do start tbls and play here and there also Hu pure and can share here their input...
      They told me that indeed he shoul not jam here any 9x - so here youre right - but as a strong palyer he should jam the better 9x, such as Q9+... and adam is a strong player, for sure....

      @2.) agree and the mentioned players also agreed here

      @3.) again, agree and everyone else as well agreed

      @4.) oh,we haver forgotten to go over this aspect, but at least they think we should valuejam there everything, cause we have such a big potential bluffrange...
      But I agree with you, though I do not think that we wanan check here many valuehands for mentioned reasons, I do definitely think that me personally do not wanna C/F 100% here when I check - so at least I wanna have here some solid madehands which would check...
      Thing is that 9x would be nice, but this 9x is closely too bad to C/C and most better 9x I defend already passively...
      so mb I can check here 99, JJ, and in some % some AA, K I gues - hard to determine...

      and yeah,
      as said, would like to talk strat with you more seriously via skype, but yeah - that`s only one hand^^
      But I guess soon we can do together some serious session:)

      5.)
      Mb youre right - but I rly have no clue bout this tbh, cause yetIm not a hu-star - as said, will soon even take some Hu-coaches^^
      The problem with your idea is that when Im defending a little less, then Im not directyl exploitable as long as I do not fold >50%, but still he can then open any 2 (ok, he does this anyways) and run me very profitable over...
      but mb youre right - idk...^^



      3.)
    • imfromsweden007
      imfromsweden007
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.10.2008 Posts: 726
      Would you say that you're massively unbalanced towards check/folding if you fold 96 here?
    • serverm07
      serverm07
      Basic
      Joined: 08.08.2012 Posts: 1,130
      Originally posted by imfromsweden007
      Would you say that you're massively unbalanced towards check/folding if you fold 96 here?
      I personally don't think so. So we need like almost 50% combos of x/c hands vs our x/f hands right. I think we can check 99, I think JJ makes sense to check since then his range will be super draw heavy and so I guess we can expect more bluffs. I think we could also check AA and have enough combos to x/c with. My guess is KK is prob a jam. Idk if we have AJ in our 3bet range or J9o, A lot of guys say J9o is really bad/really weak etc etc but I would typically flat it personally. My guess is AJ can be a fine 3bet but once again not sure if we want to start a 3betting war and have such a wide 3bet range here. I think it could be a fine 3bet and that would be one of the hands I would pick to check I think.

      Thoughts on this? Anything else you would want to x/c with or disagree about this? also how many combos of x/f do we have here?
    • IronPumper
      IronPumper
      Coach
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      Joined: 03.01.2008 Posts: 14,903
      Originally posted by imfromsweden007
      Would you say that you're massively unbalanced towards check/folding if you fold 96 here?
      yes - at least when I would valueam all my "real" valuerange.
      So i would need to start checking also some of my stronger hands cause all the better 9x are mostly in my coldcallrange vs him and hence I lack in this spot of better Bluffcatchers.
      With this bluffcatcher though its pretty close and vs. many assigneed ranges you would have a -ev call...
    • IronPumper
      IronPumper
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.01.2008 Posts: 14,903
      Originally posted by serverm07
      Originally posted by imfromsweden007
      Would you say that you're massively unbalanced towards check/folding if you fold 96 here?
      I personally don't think so. So we need like almost 50% combos of x/c hands vs our x/f hands right. I think we can check 99, I think JJ makes sense to check since then his range will be super draw heavy and so I guess we can expect more bluffs. I think we could also check AA and have enough combos to x/c with. My guess is KK is prob a jam. Idk if we have AJ in our 3bet range or J9o, A lot of guys say J9o is really bad/really weak etc etc but I would typically flat it personally. My guess is AJ can be a fine 3bet but once again not sure if we want to start a 3betting war and have such a wide 3bet range here. I think it could be a fine 3bet and that would be one of the hands I would pick to check I think.

      Thoughts on this? Anything else you would want to x/c with or disagree about this? also how many combos of x/f do we have here?
      regards to J9o and AJo:
      J9o is a clear passive defend him vs him and AJo is a clear value3bet (ATo I would call vs him at this point..) - Hu vs. good players who minraise from the Button, you do not wanna have a 10%-3b-range like at 6max - that is just too nitty...

      with all the other thoughts bout what we could potentially C/C, I agree...