River call efficiency

    • DannyJQ
      DannyJQ
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.07.2011 Posts: 1,507
      Hello,

      I recently stumbled upon this stats and I want to learn more about it.

      My river call efficiency is 1.22. What is yours(use big samples, because I noticed it can change drastically if small samples are used) ?

      What would be a good value? ( I guess it depends on the limit we are playing?)

      What stats should we combine it with to find leaks in our game?

      Thanks in advance =)
  • 7 replies
    • ProfitsofDoom
      ProfitsofDoom
      Basic
      Joined: 29.08.2012 Posts: 177
      I posted about this a while ago, it was a leak that was showing up for me in Leakbuster.

      right now mine is 1.64, so it is just hair under the recommended range in LB. and my sample size is about 30k hands since i started playing on Bovada.

      It tells me mine is too low, and explains the stat as a ratio of your return per dollar you've called on the river. And says it may be an indicator that you are calling too many hands on the river.

      As far as what other stats, i'm guessing maybe WTSD, and W$SD.
    • jules97
      jules97
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.06.2012 Posts: 1,449
      Most solid guys are somewhere around the range of 1.75- 2.1.

      1.22 looks like a pretty serious callling station. Not a believer hey? :P What's your WTSD and W$SD and vpip/pfr over the same sample?


      Mine is 1.97 over last 50k hands @ nl50.
    • PumaPerez
      PumaPerez
      Silver
      Joined: 09.11.2009 Posts: 4,281
      hi there,

      i am also currently looking into this stat. mine is 2,29 for this year. NL25, 62k sample. WTSD 27, W$SD 60. but i am loosing in big pots. that why i am interested in this stat :)
    • ProfitsofDoom
      ProfitsofDoom
      Basic
      Joined: 29.08.2012 Posts: 177
      Puma, your River call efficiency number seems really good.

      But your W$SD seems too high. I have been a bit confused by the W$SD stat, I think it is a bit of a balancing act between calling too much if your number is too low, and not calling enough on the river if your number is too high. the advice i got from Leakbuster when my number was on the higher end, was that "you are likely folding too many winners on the river"

      and i found this on the holdem manager forum from the creator of LB -

      "When this number gets too high, it's an indicator that you're not taking as many hands to showdown as you should. EX: If you're folding when you are getting 2:1 odds on the river, but you expect to lose about 28% of the time when you make this call, then you are going to push up the percentage of your W$SD%, because you're missing some +EV calls. "
    • PumaPerez
      PumaPerez
      Silver
      Joined: 09.11.2009 Posts: 4,281
      yeah, but i dont like idea going into showdown even more often. as you said mine frequency is already too high :)
    • Chymera
      Chymera
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.08.2009 Posts: 2,531
      Hy!
      River call efficiency shouldn't have to be under 1,5. If that's the case consider folding more on the river with marginal hands because chances are you're calling down too light.
      You can filter these situations using two filters if you have HM:
      -one for calling river continuation bets
      -the other for calling river non-cbets.
      I don't remember now the exact settings for these filters but I take a look in HM if you want me to. And keep in mind that you need a bigger sample size because this is a river stat so this needs alot more hands to become somewhat accurate.
    • Chymera
      Chymera
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.08.2009 Posts: 2,531
      To answer your other question, other useful stats are WWSF, WTSD.
      If WWSF is under 44 (standard range being between 44-50) then you are passive postflop. This stat tells you how hard are you fighting for pots so if you are below 44 then you don't raise enough postflop either for value or as a (semi)bluff. This usually comes with a higher WTSD (standard value being between 24-28).