[NL20-NL50] #2 KQ nl20

    • ilidek
      ilidek
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.07.2010 Posts: 2,952
      CO: $35.38 (141.5 bb)
      BTN: $25.58 (102.3 bb)
      Hero (SB): $27.99 (112 bb)
      BB: $27.78 (111.1 bb)
      UTG: $25 (100 bb)
      MP: $14.62 (58.5 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with K:club: Q:diamond:
      UTG raises to $0.75, MP calls $0.75, CO folds, BTN calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.65, BB folds

      Flop: ($3.25) A:diamond: T:heart: J:diamond: (4 players)
      Hero bets $2.50, UTG folds, MP calls $2.50, BTN folds

      Turn: ($8.25) T:spade: (2 players)
      Hero bets $5.70, MP folds

      pre great odds to call
      on the flop just lead and play straightforward? vs raise just 3b/c ?
  • 6 replies
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Hey Ilidek,

      Preflop call is not great, you'd much prefer a hand like 78s here. Folding preflop is fine, squeezing may be ok depending on players at the table.

      On the flop, I'd take your line. Donk-bet and get it in vs a raise. On this texture there are plenty of worse hands that are not going to fold to a 3bet, and you don't want to see a bad turn card.
    • ilidek
      ilidek
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.07.2010 Posts: 2,952
      Why you don't like hand like that ? there is allready 3,25 in a pot to call I need to add 0.65 it means I need to flop something 20% of the time. If BB calls I need to win 17% of the time. We will flop the nutz (2pair +) 10% of the time and we have IO don't you think it's no brainer call? I am right with this 10% flop nutz?
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Originally posted by ilidek
      Why you don't like hand like that ? there is allready 3,25 in a pot to call I need to add 0.65 it means I need to flop something 20% of the time. If BB calls I need to win 17% of the time. We will flop the nutz (2pair +) 10% of the time and we have IO don't you think it's no brainer call? I am right with this 10% flop nutz?
      As I mentioned in the 37o hand, it's not purely about your direct preflop odds. You need to think about how your hand is going to play postflop and whether you actually have implieds odds or whether you really have reverse-implied odds.

      Usually KQo falls into the reverse implied odds category. It doesn't make flushes and straights very well. It's main strength is making 1pair hands which are going to end up dominated a lot.

      A hand like A5s on the other hand clearly does benefit from implied-odds and would be a great hand to have in this spot.

      And you are likely correct with 10% flop nuts, I think that is something raskolnikov teaches and I have no reason to doubt him.
    • ilidek
      ilidek
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.07.2010 Posts: 2,952
      Yeah this 10% is a Raskolnikov thing. If my gameplan with hands like KQo and 73o is to fold antyhing except twopair+ you think it's still bad idea? I don't have a problem w/ folding hand like AJ on Axx or KQ on Kxx in multiway vs cbet if I weren't an agressor.

      Btw thanks for your exact answers because now I get what you meant.
    • zumpar
      zumpar
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 1,185
      flop donk is def the best option here :f_thumbsup:
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Originally posted by ilidek
      If my gameplan with hands like KQo and 73o is to fold antyhing except twopair+ you think it's still bad idea? I don't have a problem w/ folding hand like AJ on Axx or KQ on Kxx in multiway vs cbet if I weren't an agressor.
      Theoretically, if you could play perfectly postflop, you should call if you are getting the right preflop price with these hands.

      It's easier said than done with a hand like 73o. When you make 2pair it'll usually be bottom two pair, and even then you won't feel super excited about getting the money in. When you make trips it'll be bottom trips. Sometimes you will end up flopping weak straight/flush draws also and feeling priced in when your opponent bets small.

      KQ might play a little better multiway - I'm not necessarily saying you should fold KQ multiway (like you should the 73o). I'm just pointing out the potential problems that a hand like KQ has in a multiway pot. You'd much prefer something like a SC, PP, or Axs.

      So specifically with the KQ, when I say "your call isn't great", I'm not necessarily saying you should fold, just pointing out that you could get into a lot of trouble postflop and that folding/squeezing as alternatives are definite options.