caling vs 4bets

    • zumpar
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 1,185

      i was wondering if facing a 4bet vs someone who 4bet bluffs a lot in positions like BU vs SB, BU vs BB etc, can we call the 4bet with hand like AQ and somehow merge/keep his 4bet bluffs (hands with blockers like Ax/KQ/QJ etc - which we have dominated) in the pot?
      and just play postflop?

      i think i heard something like this in some NL400 video, but im wondering if it could be profitable at nl20/50 :)

      i mean, if someone has a loose somewhat balanced 4b+ratio of lets say 5.5-6

      it should look like this

      equity win tie pots won pots tied
      Hand 0: 58.295% 56.68% 01.62% 908342078 25962908.00 { AQs, AQo }
      Hand 1: 41.705% 40.08% 01.62% 642448650 25962908.00 { QQ+, AcKc, AsKs, A5s-A4s, AcKd, AdKc, AhKc, AsKc, A4o-A3o, KcQd, KcQh, KcQs, KdQh, KdQs, KhQd, KhQs, KsQc, KsQd, KsQh, KcJd, KcJh, KcJs, KdJh, KdJs, KhJs, QcJd, QcJh, QcJs, QdJc, QdJh, QdJs }

      (i plugged in value hands, removed a few AK/QQ combos, cause sometimes they just call the 3b pre and added an equal amount of bluffs - Ax/KJ/KQ/QJ)

      and we are actually doing pretty good

  • 3 replies
    • booomm
      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      I play nl30/50.
      100bb deep I don't like calling that much even vs a fish or a bad reg unless he gives me a very good reason to (vilain super passive for exemple), 150bb+ I'm calling AQ, AK, KQs plus some funky suited connectors, low pp. you should be flatting AA, KK, QQ for balance too. but it all depends on who you are playing, if you think you have very little fold equity postflop and you are oop, just fold or 5bet.
    • gxtwo
      Joined: 15.12.2010 Posts: 1,173
      Wouldn't it be easier to calculate our EV of 5betting vs such players?

      I mean whats our plan when we do call and miss the flop?
    • Optroot
      Joined: 11.05.2008 Posts: 250
      I think it's pretty clear that 5b shoving is the best play against a range this wide. You can profitably shove your whole 3b range because they will fold too much to a 5b, making it profitable with almost ATC - depending of course what they are calling with. In this case though, it doesn't matter what they choose to call you with, 5b shoving AQo/AQs is definitely +EV.

      Anyway, regarding calling - don't confuse equity with EV, they have little to do with each other. Just because you have >50% equity doesn't mean a play is +EV. Calling with AQs/AQo is definitely -EV against this range. There is almost no flop you are comfortable getting it in against, and if you do get it in, a lot of the time you will be dominated/behind.

      EDIT: This is of course, assuming 100bb deep. >100bb is a different story, an argument can be made for calling AQs/AQo, depending on your total range, stack sizes and villain tendencies.