[NL2-NL10] nl10 SH AQ

    • DrDunne
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,337
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:
      BB (Hero):

      Preflop: Hero is BB with A, Q.
      3 folds, BU raises to $0.25, SB folds, Hero calls $0.15.

      Flop: ($0.55) 7, Q, 7 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.05, BU calls $0.65.

      Turn: ($2.65) 9 (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.65, BU calls $1.65.

      River: ($5.95) 5 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU checks.

      Final Pot: $5.95.

      Results follow:

      Hero shows two pairs, queens and sevens(As Qc).
      BU shows two pairs, nines and sevens(9d 6h).

      Hero wins with two pairs, queens and sevens(As Qc).

      this is interesting for me because i don't tend to play this way, but i think i'm actually missing out on value by not doing this more often.

      villain is again an unknown: 9/9 over 11 hands.

      preflop i think flatting is okay here since i have good equity vs his range. i'm not happy getting it in vs a 4bet as well so i'd rather see a flop.

      on the flop i think i can get value from weaker Qx hands along with draws. i think a lot of people will call down pretty light in this spot as well since it's tough for me to have a 7x hand and i wouldn't think people expect a checkraise with TP. if i get 3bet on the flop i'll fold... even if the yeti theorem says otherwise :D

      on the turn i think i can still get some thin value from weaker Qx hands along with 88/TT and JJ that decide to bluffcatch, or maybe some AJ/AT that pick up the NFD.

      on the river i plan to check/fold since i don't expect people to open, bet/call, call and then bet with a weaker hand especially on such a scary board.

      is this too spewy?

  • 6 replies
    • CPallo
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,343
      I'd rather 3-bet this pre. Button's range here is wide, and you are most of the time just guessing post-flop when you miss it. Even if you hit it, too. Playing oop against wide range is hard..
    • DrDunne
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,337
      that does make sense, and i used to 3bet these hands as a standard OOP but the thing is AQ is so strong and waaay ahead of villain's range. also postflop isn't always so bad since we can flop a pretty strong pair sometimes, or a draw of some sort that we can use to play back, or villain will simply cbet once and start shutting down later in which case we can take a stab if we think villain can fold small pairs. besides that AQ has a ton of SDV vs LP range
    • DrDunne
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,337
      i'm not disagreeing with 3betting AQ vs BU/CO, but i just don't do it as a standard play. my point is that a BU range will be anywhere from 30% to even 60% and the way i see it is that we WANT to play postflop with AQ against this range because we are crushing it.

      we can't make any assumptions about villain's continuing range vs a 3bet from us since in this case villain is unknown. what we can say is that villain will probably be folding most of his opening range and only continuing with the top portion of that particular opening range (obviously lol). so whenever he does fold - which will be A LOT, we pick up only 3bb (+ blinds) from him. if we can even add an extra 4bb that we gain from his cbet bluffs then calling pre is surely better - and that ignores all the times that we flop a hand and can extract more value.

      after saying all of this, i do actually 3bet AQ a fair amount, but i would have to be sure that villain will continue with a wide range like many PPs (won't be able to stand up to much postflop pressure) along with dominated broadways like KQ, QJ, JT etc along wtih many AXs where if we both flop TP i end up crushing it. my range vs this type of player would be value heavy and so AQ is naturally included in that.

      on the other hand, times where i flat are generally when villain is unknown - like here, and when villain has a relatively tight continuing range after i 3bet. if he continues only with something like 99+, AJs+ and AQo+, 4bet-shipping KK+ and AK then i think this sort of villain will be able to easily put me in tough spots when we do make it postflop (given how we will have roughly similar equity but he has the advantage of postion), and the rest of the time he 4bets me with a range that owns me and i'm forced to fold a hand. therefore im missing a ton of value by not flatting and keeping his range super wide.

      that's my thinking about it and i may or may not be right on it... but i have given this situation a lot of thought before because it seems to be a grey area with my game where i'm always not sure of the right play.
    • Tomaloc
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,849
      what we can tell with him being 9/9 on 11 hands and fully stacked is that he is almost certainly a reg, we definitely shouldn't try to jump to any further conclusions though.

      imo against unknown regs both options (calling and 3betting) are fine.

      reasoning behind 3betting: take initiative, expect to be called by worse, assuming that regs will call you light given positions.
      taking the pot down immediately being oop is pretty cool too

      reasoning behind calling: keep all his trash in, it isn't THAT hard to play oop postflop after calling.
      if we hit we should expect to be ahead really often (in most boards) and if we miss we can still continue with A high sometimes (dry boards, gutshots, bluff some suitable scary boards).

      so well, on to the hand, looks nice hand to me, not much to comment. :f_biggrin: i agree with a lot of what you said, your reasoning is sound.
      flop he won't want to fold any one pair hand, and you beat A LOT of them. there is value from draws too.
      turn is a meh card but there still is value against one pair/one card FD.
      on the river one pair hands will check behind and he doesn't have a lot that he can bluff with, so c/f is fine.
    • DrDunne
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,337
      awesome thanks for the eval tomaloc - good to see you back around :)

      the thing i'm interested in with this hand is the checkraise on the flop. my reasoning sucked, but basically it was:
      - i used to checkraise bluff small PPs here and got snapcalled and played back at a lot, so it means also that i can checkraise now for value with TPTK.
      - he can have FDs that won't fold to a checkraise
      - he can have weaker Qx that won't fold to a raise
      - he might spazz out and turn into a station

      the problem is i'm not sure if i'm overplaying with this line... i mean if i get called on the flop and raised on the turn things get really ugly. also if i get 3bet on the flop it's also really ugly..
    • Tomaloc
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,849
      all your points for c/r'ing are valid imo.

      if he decides to play back... call flop/raise turn is pretty strong so it's a fold.
      being 3bet on the flop isn't as strong, but then it's all down to reads. can he 3bet draws/air as "leveling war" or even weaker Qx "for protection"? against relative unknown i prefer folding, expect KK+ and 7x most often.