[NL20-NL50] NL25sh 99 UTG facing 3bet and caller, call preflop for set value?

    • member001
      Joined: 18.03.2010 Posts: 288
      Full Tilt, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, Rush, 6 Players

      CO: $22.27 (89.1 bb)
      BTN: $21.34 (85.4 bb)
      SB: $18.98 (75.9 bb)
      BB: $15.87 (63.5 bb)
      Hero (UTG): $38.55 (154.2 bb)
      MP: $11.70 (46.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9 9
      Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, BTN raises to $2.25, SB calls $2.15, BB folds, Hero calls $1.50 ??

      Got lucky, hand played itself.

      Flop: ($7) 9 8 6 :f_biggrin: (3 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $4.90, SB folds, Hero raises to $36.30 and is all-in, BTN calls $14.19 and is all-in

      Turn: ($45.18) 4 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
      River: ($45.18) T (2 players, 2 are all-in)

      Results: $45.18 pot ($2.25 rake)
      Final Board: 9 8 6 4 T
      BTN showed K K and lost (-$21.34 net)
      SB mucked and lost (-$2.25 net)
      Hero showed 9 9 and won $42.93 ($21.59 net)

      Both villains unknown.

      Can we call preflop for set value?

      Reasons in favour:
      - dead money / better odds multiway. I close the action for another $1.50 preflop to see a flop of $7. If I hit one time in 8 I need to win on average a further $5 when I do hit, which should be do-able?
      - BTN is raising against UTG so he may have a strong range and be more likely to stack off.

      Reasons against:
      - out of position against the PFA, harder to get value
      - sub-100bb effective stacks

      So my questions:
      1) was this call 3-way ok?
      2) correct that if we were against only BTN we would fold here without reads/info?
      3) what if we had 22-66? I'm thinking we also fold because of reverse implieds (set over set).

  • 1 reply
    • w34z3l
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Hey member001,

      1) Yes, preflop call is great. Better direct odds preflop multiway, and the stacks are not too shallow (although full stacks are better of course).

      2) Vs one opponent I would fold almost always unless he was deep. Vs two opponents I would tend towards calling almost always unless they were both shallow.

      3) 22-66 is optional. It's pretty reasonable to fold them. It wouldn't be a huge spew to call or anything.

      Set mining is not an exact science, there are a lot of estimates involved. You want to estimate how good your implied odds are. Here are some factors that result in good implied odds -

      - Villain has a very tight/strong range
      - Villain is a very bad player
      - Stacks are deep
      - Villain loves to bluff big postflop