[MSS SH] speed 20NL Stats

  • 10 replies
    • petterix
      petterix
      Silver
      Joined: 03.09.2008 Posts: 68
      :f_eek:
      woot?! 25/24/9 ?!?!

      Is that your own strategy or have you even tried to fallow PS's strategy?

      Mine is around 15/14/7.
      Yes I know it's a bit nitty but IMO VPIP 25 is way too high. I guess something like 18-20 would be optimal for short mss, no?

      What's your Fold to 3bet Pre?
      Don't you need to fold a lots of your open raises with medium hands when opponents start to light 3-betting you?
    • HypnoMarsu
      HypnoMarsu
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.09.2011 Posts: 29
      Hi

      I assume this is iPoker speed NLHE?

      Petterix is right, 25/24 is to loose.

      I play mss at nl50 speed and play 19/16. You should play tight overall.

      You can play loose with small sizing when the hand is unopened and there are ONLY nits and reg left to act behind you. In this case your goal is to steal the pot pre or flop a monster or monster draw. Generally the weaker your hand is pre when you open the closer your post flop strategy should be to the freeplay chart in the basic MSS articles.

      ie Your strongest hands pre --> Basic post flop on dry / wet board chart
      Your weakest hands pre --> Basic post flop Wet / freeplay chart

      Hope you get what I'm trying say

      Your cbet seems pretty spewy but this is probably because of your loose range. 60-75 cbet would be optimal IMO.

      You should check/fold more flops after stealing with junk if villain doesn't fold vs your cbet often enough OR you could just steal less :f_eek:

      Your fold to 3bet is high but IMO its not a big leak, as long as you open small (2x/2.5x) when you have 3bet happy villains to your left. Because most people in speed will have a strong hand when they 3bet and we will abuse them by not paying them off.

      Would you post your pre flop bet sizing and your positional winrates and how many tables you play at a time?
    • lodinn
      lodinn
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.10.2010 Posts: 1,276
      I've just recently experiented with some 6max MMS on the ipoker speed tables. There is lots of other MMS-players at these tables. Obviously player dependent, but is there any general adjustment when playing versus them? Even though effective stacks obviously are the same if the action is heads up, I suppose adjustments are in order since you should expect them to know the strategy you're using as well.
    • hydaniel
      hydaniel
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2010 Posts: 399
      Originally posted by HypnoMarsu

      Would you post your pre flop bet sizing and your positional winrates and how many tables you play at a time?
      Ty Hypno, very useful ur comment. i should be tighter.

      EP-MP 3x . CO-BT-SB 2.5x

      4 speed tables at a time

      WR 45k hands

      EP 8.28

      MP 13.68

      CO 10.14

      BT 17.04

      SB -14.16

      BB -58.97 :s_cry:

      i dont have the status to see articles MSS SH, how would OR ranges? 3bet?
    • HypnoMarsu
      HypnoMarsu
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.09.2011 Posts: 29
      Hydaniel

      1)about your winrates

      BB) I'm guessing you got problems calling 4bets to light or commiting yourself to the pot to light post in 3bet pots - You should go through your losing hands from BB and try to identify spots where you should have folded earlier. If you find hands your unsure about, post them for evaluation

      CO&BU) your winrates should be higher especially in the CO. People are probably abusing you by 3betting you from BU or cold calling you in position to take the pot post by raising/floating your light cbets. - Both winrates will improve with tighter ranges.

      2) About stealing. If you want to perform an any 2 steal:

      from SB your villains fold BB to SB steal needs to be
      -50 for 2bb open from SB
      -57 for 2.5bb
      -63 for 3bb
      -67 for 3.5bb
      -70 for 4bb

      from BU its a bit more complicated. But here the method I use for any 2 steal.
      if BB folds more than 63 to BU steal and the SUM of SB fold to BU steal and BB fold to BU steal is over 160 I can steal any 2 for 2.5bb

      example 1) if BB folds 80 to BU, SB has to fold 80 for any 2 steal for 2.5bb to break even (80+80=160)

      example 2) if BB folds 70 to BU, SB has to fold 90 (70+90=160) for 2.5bb to break even

      I'll show you the math why this works if you ask but I won't bother in this post.

      3) this is the articles ORC
      UTG:
      88+, Ats+, AJo+,KQ

      MP:
      77+,A9s+, ATo+,KJ+

      CO/SB:

      66+, A8s+, A9o+, KTs+, KJo+, QTs+, QJo+, JTs

      BU:

      22+, A2s+, A8o+, K9s+, KTo+, Q9s+, QTo+, J9s+, JTo, 54s+

      BB: with 2 limpers:

      77+, A9s+, ATo+, KJ+

      BB: with 1 limper

      77+, A9s+, ATo+, KT+, QT+, JT, T9s

      BB: Only when SB completes

      22+, Ax+, K8+, Q8s, Q9o+, J8s+, J9o+, 54s+, 75s+


      I suggest these 4bet/3bet broke range vs
      UTG & MP: JJ+ AK, CO: TT+, AQs+ BU:99+, AQ+ SB: 88+, AJs+

      these ranges are just suggestions and there are no guarantees. You should read the article as soon as reach silver to understand why/how they where made.

      4)You need to make a choice about multitabling. If your gonna multitable more than 2 tables the above ranges are your maximum ranges. If you only play 1 or 2 you will have more time to think things through and deviate when you think its +EV.
      I'd recommend 2 tabling for a 10k hands with the above range to see how you do and then make your choice. It's definately not wrong to play less tables at ipoker speed tables because of the short time your given to think/act compared to zoom or fastforward.

      5)also I just thougt of it I would recommend at least a 50 buy in BRM

      6)Oh and if someone from PS.com staff objects to me giving these ranges please edit/delete this post.

      Good luck at the tables!

      -Hypno
    • HypnoMarsu
      HypnoMarsu
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.09.2011 Posts: 29
      lodinn

      I think there is only one thing you can do vs unknown MSS-player and that is smaller opens and 3bets and assume some kind of (newbie) TAG-like competence with tighter pre flop ranges. The risk with this assumption is giving too much credit to a fish with similar stack size. But the door swings both ways. A MSS-player won't remain unknown for long because of the amount of hands he plays and you'll be able to start exploiting his/her weak spots.

      Hope this answered your question.

      -Hypno
    • hydaniel
      hydaniel
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2010 Posts: 399
      Thank you again Hypno, ill review all, ill try to do everything and at 10k hands ill post graph ans stats.

      I have a question, there isnt ROL in BT or CO? just in BB?
    • HypnoMarsu
      HypnoMarsu
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.09.2011 Posts: 29
      the article doesn't give any ROL ranges for late position. I would in general use the CO open range in position to ROL, this way you'll quite often dominate typical limping hands such as 22-55 and small suited Ax hands. In the SB I would use the BB ranges as long as the BB folds often enough. On the BU Vs a fit or fold fish I would ROL as wide as the BU open range with the intention to cbet him of his hand on a dry flop and fold to any further action unless I have a very good hand.
    • lodinn
      lodinn
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.10.2010 Posts: 1,276
      Thank you hypno :)
    • lodinn
      lodinn
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.10.2010 Posts: 1,276
      Played 10k hands so far. I definitely think there's good value playing this way. Not only EV-wise, but I'm confident to say that I've run pretty bad overall.

      beware of ipokerrig and swings :]