cbetting small in Omaha

    • Timmaywin
      Timmaywin
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2010 Posts: 1,080
      Hi folks,

      I was participating in a coaching from Ribbo last night and in it he was talking about the size of cbets you make in Omaha. His standard cbet size is half pot.

      I will try to implement this in my game, but I wonder if this is the right strategy against all player types. I agree that when you cbet half pot most of the time, you can balance your game and you can also cbet your bluffs his way. But since passive omaha players will call you anyway, isn't it smarter to get max. value by betting almost potsize?

      I did play a couple of hands yesterday as well and I noticed that I sometimes had some trouble not betting bigger, because I got calls on all streets and gave players a cheaper draw.
      What I do want to mention though is: I was more relaxed playing this way, betting smaller, maybe also because this playing style results in smaller swings.
  • 7 replies
    • BluffinBilbo
      BluffinBilbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.07.2009 Posts: 800
      I have also played aroundwith the betsizing of the cbets after the coaching (by rhe way the coaching was fucking awesome!!)
      I stillbet pot if im against a person that iknow isa huge calling station though. Will try to write al longer post avout this when im not typing on my pad :P
    • BluffinBilbo
      BluffinBilbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.07.2009 Posts: 800
      An interesting hand just occurred where it is very clear that a small c-bet is natural:

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      PL Omaha $0.02(BB) Poker Stars
      SB ($1.94)
      BB ($5.11)
      UTG ($2.12)
      UTG+1 ($2)
      CO ($1.11)
      Hero ($3.84)

      Dealt to Hero K:diamond: K:spade: J:diamond: 9:club:

      fold, fold, CO calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.08, fold, fold, CO calls $0.06

      FLOP ($0.19) 6:spade: 6:diamond: K:club:

      CO checks, Hero bets $0.06, CO calls $0.06

      TURN ($0.31) 6:spade: 6:diamond: K:club: 3:diamond:

      CO checks, Hero bets $0.24, CO calls $0.24

      RIVER ($0.79) 6:spade: 6:diamond: K:club: 3:diamond: 3:club:

      CO checks, Hero bets $0.74, CO folds

      Hero shows K:diamond: K:spade: J:diamond: 9:club:

      Hero wins $0.76

      I really like this valueline, since the opponent had 0.73 left on the river and i was exactly able to push him all in on the river without it looking so aggressive :D

      This leads to the question, should i c-bet 1/3 pot on this board against a shortstacked opponent when i c-bet as a bluff??

      Also very interesting is the opponents range here. Im guessing he didnt have a 6 on the river. So what did he have ?? :D
    • Timmaywin
      Timmaywin
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2010 Posts: 1,080
      Yea, I played some more with smaller cbets, and it seems to work out, players seem to fold a lot to half pot cbets, so no need to bet big it seems :)

      I want to talk about this topic more too, hope to get a discussion going here!

      @mr baggins, sometimes it's difficult to know what villain holds, and the hand you posted is one of those where I have no clue what he might have, maybe some small pair hand, like QQxx/JJxx/TTxx etc, where he calls the flop with hoping to hit a full house against Kxxx hands. And yes, I think he would only do this when you bet half pot, think he would otherwise check-fold the flop.

      I also have an interesting hand, with a little trouble playing it postflop:

      PokerStars Zoom Pot-Limit Omaha, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

      Button ($2)
      SB ($1.56)
      BB ($6.20)
      UTG ($10.71)
      MP ($2.15)
      Hero (CO) ($2.01)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with 3, A, A, 5
      2 folds, Hero bets $0.06, Button calls $0.06, 1 fold, BB calls $0.04

      Flop: ($0.19) 3, 5, K (3 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.13, Button raises to $0.26, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.13

      Turn: ($0.71) J (2 players)
      Hero checks, Button checks

      River: ($0.71) 8 (2 players)
      Hero checks, Button bets $0.34, Hero thinks: wtf, have to fold my bottom two?
    • BluffinBilbo
      BluffinBilbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.07.2009 Posts: 800
      Actually that hand is a situation where i wanna fold my bottom 2-pairs onthe flop already. I dont see our hand standing to any more bets, and i feel pretty sure that BTN wont be passive for two more streets even if he minraises the flop.
      On the river, i really think you have to give up :D


      On the subject: I really feel that the whole dynamics of the game has changed since i started c-betting smaller. I play to the river way more often. I get a lot more tricky situations, but my opponents get even trickier decisions.

      What changes have you noticed since starting to c-bet smaller ?
    • Timmaywin
      Timmaywin
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2010 Posts: 1,080
      I am surprised about the number of players who respect the 1/2 potsize cbets, I see more folds then I expected. But the opposite also happens, players who read the 1/2 potsize bet as weakness and 3bet you in cases where they would normally just call or even fold.

      So, I will have to keep working on balancing my value hands and bluffs. This means adapting to the opponent types rather then playing my hand in a standard way against a random player.
    • Timmaywin
      Timmaywin
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2010 Posts: 1,080
      bleh, RIP omaha forum
    • Ribbo
      Ribbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 6,157
      This is my main issue as well. When in position it's much better if you force your opponent to play multiple streets out of position. So long as you get your bet sizing right so you can still get your stack in by the river, then smaller bets are often better.