[NL20-NL50] AQo

    • witrenko
      witrenko
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.05.2012 Posts: 166
      Villain 92/8 after 14 hands ( no sample ) - BTN
      BB was 18/14 call open 10

      I saw his range (BTN) very wide so made 75% bet to get value from draws weaker hands like TJ, TQ. BB in my opinion won't bluff into 2 so if he raise I'm gonna fold on this kind of board.

      Decided to call his min raise and made decision on the turn. As he donk bets I'm raising him to protect my hand and get value from draws.


      Cassava Poker $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 2147794
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      SB: $20.65
      BB: $22.12
      Hero (UTG): $26.86
      MP: $38.53
      CO: $11.91
      BTN: $16.43

      Pre Flop: ($0.30) Hero is UTG with A:spade: Q:club:
      Hero raises to $0.70, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.70, 2 folds

      Flop: ($1.70) 8:diamond: J:spade: Q:heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.27, BTN raises to $2.54, Hero calls $1.27

      Turn: ($6.78) 8:spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $1, Hero raises to $4.69, BTN raises to $13.19, Hero calls $8.50

      River: ($33.16) 3:diamond: (2 players)
  • 10 replies
    • DarkAwi
      DarkAwi
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 3,288
      You should decide on the flop what you want to do if you get raised. I think, if you want to continue, which is what I would do, then bet bigger, to get more value from draws, and weaker pairs (I'd just pot it vs a big fish), then 3bet/shove if he raises. 92/8, probably a huge fish, so TPTK against him = nuts, he may raise every Qx, pair+draws, even 2nd pairs, who knows :) He will never fold Qx, pair+draws, maybe calls with 2nd pairs. Sometimes you see 2 pairs, and straight, but I think we have no other choice. I don't like bet/call on this board, because we give a free card to his draws. As played x/raise turn is fine, but make it bigger, if he would bet bigger, then we can just shove. This 8 is quite good for us, decreases the chance of flop sets, and gives us a flushdraw.
    • witrenko
      witrenko
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.05.2012 Posts: 166
      Thank you man ;) I think you have right, so in similar spots I'm gonna make decision on the flop. Take care !
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Heya,

      I strongly disagree with this statement:

      92/8, probably a huge fish, so TPTK against him = nuts, he may raise every Qx, pair+draws, even 2nd pairs


      He is a fish, sure.. but so far he looks passive and a passive fish doesn't raise for thin value. He calls until he hits the nuts or bluff catches all the way. When he raises it's the nuts. This makes it a snap fold on flop for me. Your hand has no redraw for when you are behind and you are usually crushed by his range.

      Turn is ofc massive overplay since flop was already a fold. Donk bet = leading and since he is IP he cannot donk bet, The terminology has nothing to do with player type or sizing. :) When he bets so small after minraise flop, to me it looks like trying to induce.. after you do raise and he does induces and he shoves, I cannot imagine a clearer spot that you are behind his range here and should have folded way earlier.
    • DarkAwi
      DarkAwi
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 3,288
      We don't know if he is passive postflop or not, only 14 hands. Only thing we can see that so far he played almost every hand, so gonna be a huge fish probably.
      So until we have no sample, let's just assume this kind of player is passive? I see them minraising a lot if they hit any TP, sometimes weaker, if it stays like this (90~ish vpip), then we probably face a random clicker, who maybe doesn't even know the rules. It seemed for me too weak to fold TPTK against this player, if he played like 35/2 or something like that, I just simply bet/fold. So you say just b/f TPTK tpye hands with this little info, altough he seems a huge whale? Overpairs? What if the board is Q27r?
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by DarkAwi
      We don't know if he is passive postflop or not, only 14 hands. Only thing we can see that so far he played almost every hand, so gonna be a huge fish probably.
      So until we have no sample, let's just assume this kind of player is passive? I see them minraising a lot if they hit any TP, sometimes weaker, if it stays like this (90~ish vpip), then we probably face a random clicker, who maybe doesn't even know the rules. It seemed for me too weak to fold TPTK against this player, if he played like 35/2 or something like that, I just simply bet/fold. So you say just b/f TPTK tpye hands with this little info, altough he seems a huge whale? Overpairs?
      Do you see fish being balanced in their aggression and switching postflop? He is obviously very passive preflop which makes it more likely he is passive postflop as well than an average unknown. Minraises are also signs of passive players.. A strong aggressive player will almost never minraise unless it's a very specific situation.
    • DarkAwi
      DarkAwi
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 3,288
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Do you see fish being balanced in their aggression and switching postflop? He is obviously very passive preflop which makes it more likely he is passive postflop as well than an average unknown. Minraises are also signs of passive players.. A strong aggressive player will almost never minraise unless it's a very specific situation.
      Not so obviously, because we have only 14 hands, but yeah, rather think about him as passive, then agressive in general. I see quite a lot of guys tho, who play VPIP>50, and PFR<10, and goes crazy postflop, but they are very depolarized, minraising every TP they hit, sometimes 2nd pairs, I guess they do it for info, but plays their combo draws passively.

      Im sure tho, that often im too optimistic about their ranges, maybe because it's harder to put a fish on a range, because they play so many hands.
      What's that point after you say I stop bet/folding TPTK/OVP against this guy, and play bet/call, bet/3bet?
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      On that flop it's hard to ever bet/3bet TPTK or overpair because his range will have many value hands anyway that balance his bluffs quite well. It's usually a bet/call and check/shove blanks so Hero turns the equity in his favour since bluffs/draws are far enough behind so we still have a +EV shove, including getting owned by the better hands in Villain's range.

      You basically want to be against a range with little equity to get it in because when you are facing a range with good made hands and draws, the draws have great equity. Plus, it's very useful to have some sort of redraw ourselves, even like just a BDFD to the nuts. There will never be a clear answer to not bet/fold TPTK, it's 100% always it depends on your range, your opponent's range, board texture, opponent's likely actions, your percevied image and I would go to say it depends on your mindset and ability to handle big swings for small edges because if you cannot handle it, you will just tilt your edge away in a small edge spot like this one.
    • DarkAwi
      DarkAwi
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 3,288
      Thank you very much! :f_thumbsup:
    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Originally posted by DarkAwi
      We don't know if he is passive postflop or not, only 14 hands. Only thing we can see that so far he played almost every hand, so gonna be a huge fish probably.
      So until we have no sample, let's just assume this kind of player is passive? I see them minraising a lot if they hit any TP, sometimes weaker, if it stays like this (90~ish vpip), then we probably face a random clicker, who maybe doesn't even know the rules. It seemed for me too weak to fold TPTK against this player, if he played like 35/2 or something like that, I just simply bet/fold. So you say just b/f TPTK tpye hands with this little info, altough he seems a huge whale? Overpairs?
      Do you see fish being balanced in their aggression and switching postflop? He is obviously very passive preflop which makes it more likely he is passive postflop as well than an average unknown. Minraises are also signs of passive players.. A strong aggressive player will almost never minraise unless it's a very specific situation.
      I also think like DarkAwi that we can't really conclude from 15 hands if he is aggro postflop, given that he is passive preflop. In NL20 in Ipoker where I played recently, most of fish are limpers preflop but aggro postflop. And if this guy plays all hands, than there are so many combos of Q2o-QAo which we beat. I would play passive vs him after a raise on flop, on turn we beat now QJ combos so I would still just call his bet and shove river on blank if he bets small again., and there are less combos of Q8 and 88. If he plays with really all hands, then it makes sense that he raises with top pair no kicker because he doesnt have this situation that often.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      We don't beat QJ, it's a higher 2pair. :f_p:

      Anyway, that's not THAT important. What happens here is a difference of how the random 90VPIP fish is perceived on different sites. On Stars, he would almost never have Q2o in his raising range here. He would usually have QJ, JJ, 88, T9, J8, Q8 and sometimes hands like KT, AT or random small overpair turned into a bluff. That's one of the widest ranges imo.

      With 15 hands you cannot make a definitive decision ofc but when I see a random fish that plays 90VPIP passively preflop, I am going to assume he is passive postflop because so far I was more often right than wrong to assume this.