[NL20-NL50] AJo 3b pot J hit paired board

    • Gonchan
      Gonchan
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.06.2011 Posts: 2,867
      Prima, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      MP: $28.32 (56.6 bb)
      CO: $57.30 (114.6 bb)
      BTN: $53.74 (107.5 bb)
      SB: $43 (86 bb)
      Hero (BB): $50 (100 bb)
      UTG: $98.88 (197.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with J A
      UTG folds, MP calls $0.50, CO raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5.50, MP folds, CO calls $3.50

      Flop: ($11.75) 5 5 J (2 players)
      Hero bets $5.75, CO raises to $11.50, Hero calls $5.75

      Turn: ($34.75) K (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks

      River: ($34.75) 6 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $40.30 and is all-in, Hero calls $33 and is all-in

      Results:
      $100.75 pot ($3 rake)
      Final Board: 5 5 J K 6
      CO showed T J and won $97.75 ($47.75 net)
      Hero showed J A and lost (-$50 net)


      27/21/97 ft3b 0

      I thought he had some weaker Jx on this paired board so I called flop.

      Turn, K is not good card but I tried bluff catch.

      On river, should I care backdoor fd? I don't think river bet wouldn't make sense.
  • 7 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Hiya,

      It's hard to ever look weak on flop. You say his range is mostly Jx. Jx never folds. Why not shove and get value? If you just call you let bad cards come and his Jx can fold or improve to beat you. When your opponent's range is mostly value and you are ahead of that range, it doesn't make much sense to slowplay. As played, it's very hard to say, he can value shove a hand like KQ now on the river if he can read hands reasonably well.
    • double2
      double2
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 04.11.2008 Posts: 14,642
      I can't understand villains play on the flop.

      I would call flop also on Hero's shoes cause I don't expect villain to show the hand he showed. I mean what does he want to accomplish flop? A spazz out by Hero in a board with no draws?

      You're thoughts on villains play Manu?
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by double2
      I can't understand villains play on the flop.

      I would call flop also on Hero's shoes cause I don't expect villain to show the hand he showed. I mean what does he want to accomplish flop? A spazz out by Hero in a board with no draws?

      You're thoughts on villains play Manu?
      Given that he made a minraise I think his goal was to induce. Thing is, if he is bluffing, he is rarely putting in more money into the pot after we call. If he is not bluffing we just allow scare cards to come and when we call we also always look like having a good hand in his eyes, that's why I think calling is not the best option in this case. It's basically the next level of thinking: I know my opponent knows a 3bet here doesn't make sense for value because he thinks I think he will usually bluff here. However, if he is bluffing, I don't expect him to do it on future streets so I should just try to make him believe I am bluffing and maybe get a call from a hand like 99 that is just spazzing out on flop at first.
    • double2
      double2
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 04.11.2008 Posts: 14,642
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Originally posted by double2
      I can't understand villains play on the flop.

      I would call flop also on Hero's shoes cause I don't expect villain to show the hand he showed. I mean what does he want to accomplish flop? A spazz out by Hero in a board with no draws?

      You're thoughts on villains play Manu?
      Given that he made a minraise I think his goal was to induce. Thing is, if he is bluffing, he is rarely putting in more money into the pot after we call. If he is not bluffing we just allow scare cards to come and when we call we also always look like having a good hand in his eyes, that's why I think calling is not the best option in this case. It's basically the next level of thinking: I know my opponent knows a 3bet here doesn't make sense for value because he thinks I think he will usually bluff here. However, if he is bluffing, I don't expect him to do it on future streets so I should just try to make him believe I am bluffing and maybe get a call from a hand like 99 that is just spazzing out on flop at first.
      How would you play AK in Hero's shoes?
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      I would just bet//fold. It's a spot where I've learned my lesson the hard way that even when they are 'bluffing' with an underpair, people don't let go when you 3bet so I would definitely just bet/fold as weak as it sounds. You get raised so rarely, I don't mind it at all, most good hands call this flop, not raise. It's a spot where there are rarely universal standard ranges so it depends on whether your opponent is a reg or not and what level he thinks on like I mentioned before.
    • double2
      double2
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 04.11.2008 Posts: 14,642
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      I would just bet//fold. It's a spot where I've learned my lesson the hard way that even when they are 'bluffing' with an underpair, people don't let go when you 3bet so I would definitely just bet/fold as weak as it sounds. You get raised so rarely, I don't mind it at all, most good hands call this flop, not raise. It's a spot where there are rarely universal standard ranges so it depends on whether your opponent is a reg or not and what level he thinks on like I mentioned before.
      I was asking this cause I can see myself calling that raise with AK to take it away later, cause it's like you said, he is not bluffing future streets that often, we are "never" weak with our call.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by double2
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      I would just bet//fold. It's a spot where I've learned my lesson the hard way that even when they are 'bluffing' with an underpair, people don't let go when you 3bet so I would definitely just bet/fold as weak as it sounds. You get raised so rarely, I don't mind it at all, most good hands call this flop, not raise. It's a spot where there are rarely universal standard ranges so it depends on whether your opponent is a reg or not and what level he thinks on like I mentioned before.
      I was asking this cause I can see myself calling that raise with AK to take it away later, cause it's like you said, he is not bluffing future streets that often, we are "never" weak with our call.
      IP I would be more inclined to call. OOP it's harder, your read needs to be somewhat stronger since you take it away on the river IF he checks the turn.