Tournament Phases

  • 11 replies
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,234
      Hey Acespeci,

      there is no fixed definition for the different phases.

      From my point of view the early phase lasts until antes kick in. Most of the tournament is in mid phase. As soon as you hit the last 5 to 10% of players the game gets into late phase.

      But that's a personal definition which may not be supported by everybody.

      2nd part of your question:
      Yes, a tournament is not a SNG. As soon as a SNG has more then 27 players it's considered MTT. At least if you follow our definition at pokerstrategy.

      If you have any further question feel free to ask!

      Regards,
      Asaban
    • marcepoker17
      marcepoker17
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2011 Posts: 161
      Originally posted by Acespeci
      When your playing a tournament how do you know your in the early, middle and end phase?

      Plus you cant treat it as SNG whereas 10BI is push or Fold.

      Hey Ace,

      imo the phases of a tournament depends from your stack size, I believe that even if its the first/second level of a MTT that has 100BB as starting stack, but I have only 10BB I consider myself in the late stage.
      Of course, if I'm 100bb in the 10level (so when the antes begin) I consider myself at early stage.

      This changes a little bit if I consider also average stack size of the tournament, and obv I consider late phase the bubble of final table and the final table itself!

      I'm not really sure if I understand your second question..

      Of course a MTT is different from a SNG, and you need some adjustments when you play in the push or fold "mode" depending on average stack and on bubble steps, like I said I consider 10BB late stage, so I believe that if you play optimal SNG strategy (ICM) when you are >12/10BB in a MTT, imo, is not wrong if you use it wisely. Although I think the Equilibrium Range and Nash Range (which of them it depends from your opponents) are better strategys to follow if you are 10BB circa in a MTT, but this is just my own opinion (and Kill Phil/Kill everyone opinion)!
      Still you need to understand properly how villains at your table play, bc Equilibrium play is based on the assumption that the opponents are thinking players that would play optimally. That's to say that if you are playing a microlimits MTT Equilibrium play is not the best stategy, imo!

      As I said ICM needs some adjustments, and personally I play a bit tighter in a MTT if I'm close to the bubble or a bit looser if I'm far from the money, or the bubble busted already, but that is just personal strategy and depending a lot on the opponents!

      If you (or anyone else) disagree with it please let me know! =)

      GL

      Regards

      Marce
    • Acespeci
      Acespeci
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2012 Posts: 340
      Originally posted by marcepoker17
      Originally posted by Acespeci

      Plus you cant treat it as SNG whereas 10BI is push or Fold.

      I'm not really sure if I understand your second question..

      Of course a MTT is different from a SNG, and you need some adjustments when you play in the push or fold "mode" depending on average stack and on bubble steps, like I said I consider 10BB late stage, so I believe that if you play optimal SNG strategy (ICM) when you are >12/10BB in a MTT, imo, is not wrong if you use it wisely. Although I think the Equilibrium Range and Nash Range (which of them it depends from your opponents) are better strategys to follow if you are 10BB circa in a MTT, but this is just my own opinion (and Kill Phil/Kill everyone opinion)!

      Marce
      Thanks for your reply and I do agree with you.
      you will need some adjustment with your push or fold mode.


      Sorry you didnt understand my 2nd question. What I meant was that you cant treat the MTT as SNG when your in push or fold mode. You cant be pushing with the same range with 10BB.


      but you answered my question anyways
    • Acespeci
      Acespeci
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2012 Posts: 340
      How do you decide how much to raise when your in the different phases of a Tournament?

      For example:
      AK hand in EP with 20 BB in middle phase far from the bubble with Average stack?
      a) 2x
      b) 4x

      if you raise 4x and the bigstack call and you dont hit on the flop. The pot would be too huge to make a cbet

      If you raise 2x you might get many players calling you.


      Or you just raise 2x with all your marginal hands to balance your range?
      Or put some 4x raise in there to mix it up?
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,234
      2x all the way :megusta:

      That way your steals get more profitable while you don't lose much FE. At the same time pot management gets much easier and you can utilize your edge postflop.

      Regards,
      Asaban
    • Acespeci
      Acespeci
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2012 Posts: 340
      I was playing the big $2 with 5k guaranteed lastnite. I was deep in the torny and was limping close to the bubble then I saw your post and started 2x all the way through the Tournament phase and I finish 13th out of 4089 players.


      Could've hang on for my first big final table but I got AK. Hit a pair of K on the flop but villain hit a set of 9s on the turn. That was brutal for the long hours but am getting better at long Tournaments for the Micro million. :s_biggrin:
    • Acespeci
      Acespeci
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2012 Posts: 340
      Take a look







      One day I will Ship a Big Torny
    • TinoLaan
      TinoLaan
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2011 Posts: 6,411
      Maybe you didn't reach the FT, but still a very nice run!

      Winning 18BI is never a bad thing ;)

      As far as raise sizes go, yes, 2x all the way for sure. The smaller your raise size, the less often your raise has to work to be profitable. Plus, you simply lose less. If you raise 2.5x and get played back at 4 times you lose 10bb. If you you raise 2x and get played back at 4 times you lose 8bb. That's a 2bb difference already.

      Might seem very marginal, but it definitely adds up in the long run imo!

      Also I'm basically never raising 4x in tournaments. I'll start off with 3x early on with deep stacks, but will move to 2.5x pretty quickly. Once antes start kicking in or stacks get shorter, I'll start 2xing though.
    • TimoDee
      TimoDee
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.08.2008 Posts: 153
      Just to confirm, 2x is min-raising, right? I don't want to be confused lol
    • TinoLaan
      TinoLaan
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2011 Posts: 6,411
      Yes, 2x is min raising. Whenever we say something like 2x, we pretty much just mean 2bb. So 3x would be raising to 3bb, and 2x would be raising to 2bb.

      So yes, you were right ;)
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,234
      @Acespeci: Nice score nonetheless. Grats! Just keep on grinding and you will hit a big score for sure. I am happy that the minraises worked out for you =)

      @TimoDee: Tino already answered your question perfectly. If you have any further questions feel free to ask!

      Regards,
      Asaban