[NL20-NL50] 88 sqeeze vs 4b

    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      iPoker - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      SB: 340.82 BB (VPIP: 60.34, PFR: 34.48, 3Bet Preflop: 7.41, Hands: 60)
      Hero (BB): 107.56 BB
      UTG: 187.8 BB (VPIP: 24.34, PFR: 18.70, 3Bet Preflop: 7.83, Hands: 2,155)
      CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 23.38, PFR: 20.18, 3Bet Preflop: 10.07, Hands: 1,156)
      BTN: 105.22 BB (VPIP: 25.26, PFR: 21.88, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 395)

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8:club: 8:spade:

      fold, fold, BTN raises to 2.3 BB, SB calls 1.8 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, BTN raises to 20.3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 107.56 BB and is all-in, fold

      Hero shows 8:club: 8:spade: ()
      Hero wins 42.9 BB


      hand before I 3bet he 4bets cold.
      This is next hand, and he steals bu 75% which is really wide and 4bets 2/3 from bu, so I shove and expect him to fold very often.
  • 6 replies
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Hi.

      I think you may often be over-reacting to the dynamics based on a very small amount of information. I could be wrong though.

      Over here I think squeezing 88 as a default play is a bad idea. But if you somehow felt that he was going to be 4bet/folding a lot then I like it.

      In this case he 4bets cold once previously which may/may not say that much. Unless you have been battling a lot preflop for the past few orbits, if not this play could potentially be too aggressive. But it could be a good play if that guy is really aggro and tries to win every pot.

      Thanks.
    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      Originally posted by mbml
      Hi.

      I think you may often be over-reacting to the dynamics based on a very small amount of information. I could be wrong though.

      Over here I think squeezing 88 as a default play is a bad idea. But if you somehow felt that he was going to be 4bet/folding a lot then I like it.

      In this case he 4bets cold once previously which may/may not say that much. Unless you have been battling a lot preflop for the past few orbits, if not this play could potentially be too aggressive. But it could be a good play if that guy is really aggro and tries to win every pot.

      Thanks.
      I dont do it because he 4bet cold last hand (but this is additional reason because he might think 4bet will work again), but because I see that he steals
      75% from bu, and 4bets 2/3. So I dont think that he has so often premiums when steals 75%. Also, if I just call, I cant expect much money versus wide bu and sb which just calls, and if I dont hit set it is not so easy to play it on overcards.
      Also if bu folds preflop, and sb calls, it is still profitable situation for me because he is OOP.

      Coatch Emanuel told me that versus aggro 4betters BU I can 3bet/5bet all PP, and AQ+. I am doing this lately and works really good so far. People often call me later with AJ, AQ and I am still ahead with PP and sometimes I have QQ+,AK, and they also fold so often to shove.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Yeah ok, I think it's fine.

      I don't necessarily agree with the idea of 3betting all PPs here in this spot. That applies more for HU play. In multiway spots, set-mining with lower pocket pairs may make more sense.

      -Everyone is forced to play more straightforwardly
      -You get better odds on your pre-flop call
      -It gets really bad if you squeeze 88 here and get 2 callers, you would have been much better off flatting 88 in a single raised pot.

      So basically you must be fairly confident that BU is going to 4bet. What's your overall image?
    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      Originally posted by mbml
      What's your overall image?
      I think maniac preflop :)
      Postflop I am playing very tight aggressive.

      Actually, I play one day very aggro preflop like this hand with 88, and other day I 3bet just premiums. Or one hour I play like maniac preflop and then very tight. The result is that they make notes that I stack 88 (because sometimes they also have QQ+), and I dont expect that this move is going to be huge EV+, but then later so often when I play tight (stacking only QQ+, AK) they call me with 99, TT, AJ, AQ etc.
    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      Originally posted by GingerKid
      Originally posted by mbml
      What's your overall image?
      I think maniac preflop :)
      Postflop I am playing very tight aggressive.

      Actually, I play one day very aggro preflop like this hand with 88, and other day I 3bet just premiums. Or one hour I play like maniac preflop and then very tight. The result is that they make notes that I stack 88 (because sometimes they also have QQ+), and I dont expect that this move is going to be huge EV+, but then later so often when I play tight (stacking only QQ+, AK) they call me with 99, TT, AJ, AQ etc.
      Also I think the move 88 stacking is also +EV maybe not huge, but I need him to fold around 40% of time to be profitable, and with 75% openning bu and 4betting so aggro, I think I have it. Even if not it is a future EV for my premium hands.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Ok if u are bluffing a lot then i think u have to widen your value range as well.