calling a 4bet IP w AKo

    • tommygecko
      tommygecko
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2012 Posts: 1,229
      Is it better to flat AKo rather than 5bet shove vs an unknown shoving range?

      AKo has only 38.8% vs a range of QQ+, AKo and AKs.

      However, if you flop an A, the equity vs this range increases to 60-70% in most board textures, and 50+% if you flop a K, making it possible to continue in the hand. If you miss you can just fold.

      Am I right to say that?
  • 5 replies
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      I would say folding (and shoving) is generally much better than flatting given that it usually plays terribly in 4bet pots without initiative even if you are in position.

      "If you miss you can just fold" is an attitude you really can't have in 4bet pots when you pretty much only have 1 potsize bet behind. If you're folding that spot ~67% of times where you miss the flop (actually you will miss flop even more than this since your opponents are very often holding an A or K (or two) themselves) you're bleeding money in this spot, hugely -EV to play fit or fold here.

      Basically if your opponents 4bet range is wide enough to ship AK profitably then you ship it 5bet every time. If its not wide enough you need to ask yourself why you 3bet AK in the first place because its too good to turn into a bluff. If they're flatting 3bets a lot but narrow 4bet range then yes you still can 3bet for value but depending on their 4bet range, determine if shipping over is +EV or not.

      If opponent is unknown generally I will be happy to get it all in with AK and reevaluate once I know more, depending on positions of course. Position is very important since UTG vs MP 4bet is completely different to BTN vs BB 4bet.
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
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      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      Metza pretty much summed up my thoughts too...

      Against EP/MP I'd probably just call a 2b ip w/AKo
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      Originally posted by metza
      Basically if your opponents 4bet range is wide enough to ship AK profitably then you ship it 5bet every time.
      This is not true. Even if jamming is +EV, Calling the 4B might be higher EV than jamming.
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by Dublimax
      Originally posted by metza
      Basically if your opponents 4bet range is wide enough to ship AK profitably then you ship it 5bet every time.
      This is not true. Even if jamming is +EV, Calling the 4B might be higher EV than jamming.
      Ok you got me on a technicality. :f_biggrin:

      But I think its going to be very rare when calling a 4b with AK has higher EV than jamming. And if he's planning on playing fit or fold postflop then I don't think it ever is gonna be higher EV to call.
    • mkjmkjmkj
      mkjmkjmkj
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 159
      i agree with metza i just tried to make a calculation where we hold AKo and give villain a 6%
      4betting range QQ+ AK and some hands with blockers. and villain is always cbetting and stacking of with tp+ and we are playing fit or fold and stacking of with tp+.
      the EV of calling is around 2 and the EV of 5bet jamming is around 16

      but if you know he will try to bluff you postflop and you are willing to call down with high card calling might be better.