[NL20-NL50] 88 3b co vs bu wide 3b

    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      iPoker - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: 64.58 BB (VPIP: 35.91, PFR: 5.45, 3Bet Preflop: 4.20, Hands: 263)
      UTG: 41 BB (VPIP: 27.22, PFR: 22.49, 3Bet Preflop: 8.77, Hands: 172)
      MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 28.00, PFR: 24.00, 3Bet Preflop: 30.77, Hands: 26)
      Hero (CO): 102.16 BB
      BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 26.72, PFR: 23.28, 3Bet Preflop: 10.23, Hands: 241)
      SB: 204.82 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8:spade: 8:diamond:

      fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN raises to 8 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 5 BB

      Flop: (17.5 BB, 2 players) 5:diamond: 2:heart: 3:heart:
      Hero checks, BTN bets 12 BB, Hero calls 12 BB

      Turn: (41.5 BB, 2 players) Q:diamond:
      Hero checks, BTN bets 28 BB, Hero raises to 82.16 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 52 BB

      River: (201.5 BB, 2 players) J:club:

      Hero shows 8:spade: 8:diamond: (One Pair, Eights) (Pre 68%, Flop 69%, Turn 68%)
      BTN shows 7:diamond: A:diamond: (High Card, Ace) (Pre 32%, Flop 31%, Turn 32%)
      Hero wins 195.5 BB


      I fold vs wide 3better all PP until 88. He 3bets from BU 30%.
      I am not sure how bad is my turn shove? I rish 41$ to win 35$, so do you think that I have enough of fold equity versus such a wide range?
  • 3 replies
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Hi.

      Preflop: 88 plays pretty poorly postflop so as much as possible if the 3bet size is large enough, and the 3bet range is wide enough, I would 4bet this for value and play for stacks. His overall 3b is 10%, so I think his BU 3bet % should be >10% here. And you should be 4bet bluffing a ton (as opposed to calling OOP vs 3bets) so you can balance that by 4bet/calling 88 here.

      But it's very dependent on dynamics and if you lack that then calling is fine. I agree that you should not call 22-77 here, just so tough to play postflop.

      Flop: Flop cbet % should help here. If it's something like 100% then calling may be fine. Do expect to get barreled a lot by AX with gutshot+2 overs like AQ and AK. If we know that villain's cbet range is on the lower side, we can expect him to give up with stuff like K7s on the Flop and only cbet overpairs or AX with 2 overs. Vs such a stronger range, you can try calculating your equity and you should realize that this would be a fold here on the flop cos of very poor playability.

      Board: 5s2s3d
      Equity Win Tie
      MP2 36.50% 35.11% 1.39% { 88 }
      MP3 63.50% 62.11% 1.39% { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }

      Maybe your equity increases if i include some heart draws, and some backdoor draws too or some 6Xs/4Xs but I think playability is just gonna be very poor in general.

      Anyway the call is more acceptable when it's BU vs CO. If this were UTG vs MP I would fold here cos his range will contain less speculative hands, and way more AK,JJ+ type of hands.

      Board: 5s2s3d
      Equity Win Tie
      MP2 30.64% 29.24% 1.40% { 88 }
      MP3 69.36% 67.97% 1.40% { JJ+, AKs, AKo }

      Turn play: If we think his range contains enough barrels I think c/jam is good here. Our playability is very bad on the River and pot is already pretty big with villain putting in half his stack already. Every heart/diamond/J/A/K/4 are all bad cards for us.
    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      He 3bets 30% from BU which is really huge, and off course the most 3bets from BU are vs CO, and thats the main reason why I shove turn, call flop and preflop.
      His cbet flop is 89%, turn 50%. So I think my shove is ok not because I expect him to call with worse but because he should fold more than 60% which is enough to be +EV?
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      30% 3bet range = easy 4bet for value with 88. 4bet a ton with bluffs and balance that with 88/99, maybe even 77 if you think he is 5betting light as well. The thing here is that when we are OOP we want to avoid flatting as much as possible. Especially vs someone who cbets F 80% and T 50%. he's just gonna multibarrel so often and you are not going to have a fun time with 88 when half the deck is going to consist of overcards.

      I think the turn c/push is reasonable vs a super wide 30% range, but as mentioned 4bet makes your life much easier and it's also the more profitable play