huge cold 4 bet from a nit

    • getdotacom
      getdotacom
      Black
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 607
      €2/€4 No Limit Holdem
      6 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      HERO (UTG) (€417.50) 104bb
      UTG+1 (€473) 118bb
      CO (€443) 111bb
      BTN (€1,408.76) 352bb
      SB (€362.68) 91bb
      BB (€1,026.73) 257bb

      Pre-Flop: (€6, 6 players) HERO is UTG Q:spade: Q:diamond:
      HERO raises to €10.60, 2 folds, BTN raises to €40, 1 fold, BB raises to €100, HERO calls €89.40, BTN calls €60

      Flop: 2:diamond: Q:club: A:club: (€302, 3 players)
      BB bets €148, HERO calls €148, BTN folds

      Turn: 2:club: (€598, 2 players)
      BB bets €298, HERO goes all-in €169.50

      River: 2:heart: (€937, 2 players, 1 all-in)

      BTN was super lag fish. Playing something like 60/50/20. BB is huge nit, 19/14 but his squeeze and cold 4bet stats were surprisingly loose, only 1k hands tho. Also not sure he knew exact BU stats because this was his first hand after sitout.

      I'm pretty sure he's not bluffing with this sizing, but what's his value range? This sizing seems very unlikely with AA, I doubt he wanna scare the fish away, but I've seen similar things from nits and they're very deep, so this could be the case. Anyways I really doubt he's doing it with worse than QQ,AK. The question is what do we do here ? His raise is so large, I think we can call only in case when we discount at least half of his KK+ from his range. Then just fold on K,A hi boards and get in on others ? By folding we lose a lot of potential value from fish because he's going to come a long most likely.
  • 4 replies
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      I think your point about his sizing is untrue. They are deep and the nit will try to go for max value. I don't think 2.5X is unreasonable at all, in fact I think it can be considered standard, or maybe even small. Is the BU a station fish or just an aggro bluffer who will fold a lot when re-raised?

      in fact i think i would often use this size myself given stack depth (or maybe make it 99). i think jamming here is overplay unless we think the bu will just go allin w stuff like 89s. so its either fold or call.

      postflop seems really tricky too. would a nit bluff 3way on a T65r board w AK? i think my decision here stems from how big of a fish bu is going to be. If bu stacks off postflop with all sorts of garbage then i think the -EVness of the call vs the 4better could potentially be negated by the fishiness of BU.
    • getdotacom
      getdotacom
      Black
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 607
      Yeah, u're right. It isn't big at all. I thought it's huge at the table, maybe I was thinking I'm playing nl200 :)

      postflop seems really tricky too. would a nit bluff 3way on a T65r board w AK? i think my decision here stems from how big of a fish bu is going to be. If bu stacks off postflop with all sorts of garbage then i think the -EVness of the call vs the 4better could potentially be negated by the fishiness of BU.


      I agree that postflop is very tricky when board comes low and nit cbets 3ways. Do u think we can fold to a single bet ? OFC if he bets something like 150 into 300 that could be an easy one, but what about 100 into 300 ? I know nits usually don't bluff in these spots, but it's hard to fold QQ on low board against 1/3 psb especially when there's a fish behind who could come along or just ship 99 making nit to fold KK xD
    • camelz3391
      camelz3391
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2011 Posts: 27
      I think the "nit" can be a lot wider than usual here since he is so deep with the fish.

      Calling seems fine and I think in regards to low flops, potentially the best line (if the fish peels too) is to lead flop and fold to any aggresion/action from the nit since I dont expect him to cbet air with the fish in the hand and it ensures we get value from the fish when BTN checks back.
    • Riverdiver
      Riverdiver
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.07.2012 Posts: 1,126
      Nice bump, could you post results :f_biggrin: