defending vs cbets

    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,071
      Hey,

      I revieved already about 80-100 hands with filter facing a bet. And I cannot find many spots where I am giving up too easily. But my fcbet is about 59 % which should be 38-40 so really donating money to them.

      I found few hands where coaches in hand forums confirmed that this is not a fold. But thats its. I cannot understand why I do not find. I skip those obvious spots whre its 3way, or villain is cbetinl like 45% of the time or I have weak pair, for set mine for example.


      The general thery Emanual gave me

      Your play back against cbets depends on how much your opponent cbets ofc but the guideline for your range should be your equity and how you connect with the board. The more you face a weak range that you have a lot of FE against, the less actual equity you need. When facing a wide cbetting range you can just consider 2 overs as enough equity to play back with a raise or a call. I rarely go to lower equity than overs with backdoor flush but it's doable with enough folding equity.


      This flop fold is way too weak. 60% is considered "normal" or "standard" actually. And that's his overall cbet %. He cbets more often on drier boards, and less often on wetter boards.


      But I cannot raise just for sake of raising, as Bogdan said, where I was tring to analize and guess where I could raise.

      Any advice how to detect those?

      Maybe you can sugest some articles or videos?
  • 5 replies
    • jules97
      jules97
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.06.2012 Posts: 1,449
      I think it depends on what position you are calling the cbet from and where they are opening.


      Lets go over some examples.

      Example 1

      BB v BUT first.

      Say you call a BUT open from BB.

      BUT is reg 23/19.
      BUT opens BUT 50%, cbets 69% F, 50% T, 50% R. Folds to cbet/raise 50%.

      What is your calling range?
      What do you think his opening range is?
      What is your plan for the rest of the hand?

      We will go through some flops after.


      Exaample 2

      UTG v BUT

      UTG is reg 23/19
      UTG opens UTG 13%
      UTG cbets 75% (from UTG) 50% F, 50% R. Folds to cbet/raise 55%

      What is your calling range?
      What do you think his opening range is?
      What is your plan for the rest of the hand?
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Try posting hands in sets of 5s, in the evaluation forums. What I suggest is that you just look at the Flop spot, post the relevant stats, and delete Turn and River scenarios. So we can zoom in onto the right stuff.

      Stats that matter
      VPIP PFR
      Open raise % by position
      Flop cbet %
      Fold Cbet to Raise %
      Turn cbet %
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,071
      Example 1:

      What is your calling range?


      it depends on size of opening as well. If its minraise:

      A9+, T9s+, JTo+, KTo, 77-TT, +some random hands like 78s maybe.

      If its 3bb open then ATs+, AJo+, KQ, 77-TT, maybe QJ

      What do you think his opening range is?

      33+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J4s+,T6s+,96s+,86s+,76s,65s,A2o+,K5o+,Q7o+,J7o+,T7o+,98o

      What is your plan for the rest of the hand?


      Folds to cbet/raise 50% - you meant probably fold cbet to raise. If he folds taht much, probaly we can raise often.

      Raise with overcards and when he does not hit too often, on low boards for example, if I have at least overcards equity.

      Exaample 2

      What is your calling range?

      22+, AJs+, KQs

      What do you think his opening range is?

      22+,A7s+,KJs+,ATo+,KQo+

      What is your plan for the rest of the hand?


      Bet vs missed cbets, especially with equity. He is honest from UTG, not bluffing too much. If he cbets, give up more often, unless I have hit something.
    • Pokerfeisas1990
      Pokerfeisas1990
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.03.2011 Posts: 127
      i think its complicated, depends on VPIP, position, board texture, cbet percent, how tricky ur op can be......
    • SPeedFANat1c
      SPeedFANat1c
      Gold
      Joined: 04.01.2009 Posts: 5,071
      it is complicated, of course :) thats why I am folding so much :)

      I filtered all my nl20 hands where facing flop cbet - and its 1165 total hands, losing 98.82 bb/100.

      What is achievable?


      Filtered also by position and loosign from all positions :D



      Btw I should not worry about multiway pots, folding should most often be good unless haveing draw or decent pair, I guess.