[NL20-NL50] KK 3 way vs huge raise

    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      iPoker - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: 120.52 BB (VPIP: 24.71, PFR: 20.59, 3Bet Preflop: 9.63, Hands: 4,124)
      Hero (UTG): 100.5 BB
      MP: 70.8 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 23.08, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 40)
      CO: 123.4 BB (VPIP: 24.58, PFR: 10.26, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 124)
      BTN: 113.38 BB (VPIP: 25.41, PFR: 21.84, 3Bet Preflop: 9.44, Hands: 2,018)
      SB: 219.04 BB (VPIP: 26.26, PFR: 18.44, 3Bet Preflop: 12.33, Hands: 184)

      SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:spade: K:club:

      Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, SB calls 2.5 BB, fold

      Flop: (10 BB, 3 players) 2:club: J:heart: 3:heart:
      SB checks, Hero bets 7 BB, BTN calls 7 BB, fold

      Turn: (24 BB, 2 players) 9:club:
      Hero bets 16 BB, BTN raises to 54 BB, Hero raises to 90.5 BB, BTN calls 36.5 BB

      River: (205 BB, 2 players) 7:club:

      Hero shows K:spade: K:club: (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 68%, Flop 53%, Turn 73%)
      BTN shows Q:heart: A:heart: (High Card, Ace) (Pre 32%, Flop 47%, Turn 27%)
      Hero wins 199 BB


      He raises flop 20%, and with sets he would raise this flop to protect imo. Thats why I shove KK here. JJ he 3bets and stacks off even vs utg, so there are just 6 combos of 22 and 33 and more of combo draws, fd.
      If I would be raised on flop I would fold, because it would be hard to continue, but since I already invested money I shove turn.
  • 3 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Hey,

      I disagree here quite a bit. I think he can have 9 set combos and best you can be is against a nutflushdraw. I also doubt he stacks off JJ preflop vs UTG, what makes you assume that? I have no seen people do that. Knowing this, your play against the turn raise should probably be a fold.


      Board: 2:club: J:club: 3:heart:  9:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    39.80%  39.80%   0.00% { KsKc }
      MP3    60.20%  60.20%   0.00% { JdJh, JdJs, JdJc, 9d9h, 9d9s, 9d9c, 3d3h, 3d3s, 3d3c, 2d2h, 2d2s, 2d2c, AhQh, AcQc, KhQh, KcQc, AhJh, AcJc, AhTh, AcTc }


      You have a nicer spot if he turns Jx with other draw into a shove here, otheriwse it's quite marginal. If you know for sure he ships JJ preflop I definitely agree with your assumptions. That would bump your turn equity quite a bit. Also, it would help to know what his flat in BU is, what his fold to cbet, what his call, what his raise because we get a better idea of how he splits his range.
    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Hey,

      I disagree here quite a bit. I think he can have 9 set combos and best you can be is against a nutflushdraw. I also doubt he stacks off JJ preflop vs UTG, what makes you assume that? I have no seen people do that. Knowing this, your play against the turn raise should probably be a fold.


      Board: 2:club: J:club: 3:heart:  9:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    39.80%  39.80%   0.00% { KsKc }
      MP3    60.20%  60.20%   0.00% { JdJh, JdJs, JdJc, 9d9h, 9d9s, 9d9c, 3d3h, 3d3s, 3d3c, 2d2h, 2d2s, 2d2c, AhQh, AcQc, KhQh, KcQc, AhJh, AcJc, AhTh, AcTc }


      You have a nicer spot if he turns Jx with other draw into a shove here, otheriwse it's quite marginal. If you know for sure he ships JJ preflop I definitely agree with your assumptions. That would bump your turn equity quite a bit. Also, it would help to know what his flat in BU is, what his fold to cbet, what his call, what his raise because we get a better idea of how he splits his range.

      He is tight 3 way, is not really going to float with 99. Also I am quite sure he raises flop for protection, not the turn. Off course he might change that, especially because there was another player to act, but thats why I think I get more equity because of my read. Another thing which made me shove is that he raised really huge. That huge makes only sense if I am on a fd, and he knows that a regg is not going to call that raise with fd. So thats why I put him on a strong draw.
      Still I agree with you that it is a fold, because versus set I am crashed, and versus his draw my equity is not so great.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Well, if you can really discount so many sets your play is fine. This is not a standard shove spot IMO but if you are aware of his game and the fact that he caps his range on the flop when he just calls then I will definitely go with your read too. Don't trust blindly whatever I say, you often have more info in game so my analysis is incomplete plus I can always just be wrong about the spot. Aaaaand now I see I messed up the board texture for flop.. so will repost that... :facepalm:


      Board: J:heart: 3:heart: 2:club:  9:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    33.93%  33.93%   0.00% { KsKc }
      MP3    66.07%  66.07%   0.00% { JdJh, JdJs, JdJc, 9d9h, 9d9s, 9d9c, 3d3h, 3d3s, 3d3c, 2d2h, 2d2s, 2d2c, AhQh, AcQc, KhQh, KcQc, AhJh, AcJc, AhTh, AcTc }



      We have 5% less equity now.. probably even more of a fold as a standard but as I said, you give him a different range based on what you've played against him. Unlikely to have a set and folds 99 on the flop, therefore:


      Board: J:heart: 3:heart: 2:club:  9:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    45.71%  45.71%   0.00% { KsKc }
      MP3    54.29%  54.29%   0.00% { JdJs, JdJc, 3d3s, 3d3c, AhQh, AcQc, KhQh, AcJc, AhTh, AcTc }



      Plus you said he probably 3bets JJ preflop but the 4 set combos on turn is a reasonable amount yet we can now stack off instead of folding with so much money into the pot. Player specific play >>>>>>>>> Standard plays, trust your reads and learn when you are wrong imo, don't just follow what others say. That's the best way to go! :)