UTG facing BU wide 3bet

    • cutegoldfish
      cutegoldfish
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.11.2009 Posts: 4,335
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.25/$0.5 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:
      BU:
      $377.88
      SB:
      $119.38
      BB:
      $51.81
      MP2 (Hero):
      $64.17
      MP3:
      $69.70
      CO:
      $23.50


      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T, T.
      Hero raises to $1.50, 2 folds, BU raises to $5.00, 2 folds, Hero calls $3.50.

      Flop: ($10.75) 3, 3, 8 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $7.00, Hero calls $7.00.

      Turn: ($24.75) 6 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $15.00, Hero folds, BU gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $24.75.



      how should we play in such a spot? im confused because most of the time they are going to fire, even if we have an overpair what are we going to do? call down and bluffcatch? or call and fold? isnt that too weak? or purely set mine? he isnt too aggressive but i think hes 3betting more than just QQ+ AK on the button
  • 4 replies
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      How often he 3B BU vs MP and how often he barrels turn would be good but w/o any more reads and given his sizing fold turn is prob okay because the turn card is bad for him.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,697
      what do you think his actual range is here, in BU vs UTG?

      After deciding on his range, then we should formulate a rough game plan on various board textures.
    • lnternet
      lnternet
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2012 Posts: 782
      you don't have a sample yet but you need not only button 3bet% but also vs UT 3bet%. Given his MP and CO 3bet are at zero, he might only 3bet wide BTvCO but not BTvUT. But we don't know.

      In this spot given his stats you actually know nothing except he is a solid reg.

      Given you have no info you need to play a solid base strategy with little opponent specific adjustments. This starts with knowing what hand you call 3bets with here preflop. What is your range on the flop?

      I would guess you are seeing flop with the usually 88-QQ,AK,AQs, and perhaps a few weaker pairs and AJs AQo KQs. With that range against a polarized BT 3bet you actually have a pretty big problem on the flop. (He is polarized so even KQ is a bluffcatcher for you, and he can bet a lot of bluffs). Not sure what defense you are aiming for on the flop, but I think you need to call close to 75% of those hands. So depending on what your get-to-the-flop range is you see the turn with something between 88-QQ,AK and 88-QQ,AK,AQ. On this turn you will have to call about 75% of your range as well (his bluffs have less equity now but his sizing decreases). So you call turn with something around 88-QQ to 88-QQ,AK. If he shoves river for 37 into 55 you'll need to call about 60% of your bluffcatchers, so you are looking at 88,JJ,QQ to 88-QQ.


      If you call 77,AJs preflop you have to call down TT for stacks here.
      If you fold 99,AQ preflop you can fold TT on the turn.
    • mlatasrb
      mlatasrb
      Gold
      Joined: 01.04.2012 Posts: 2,722
      Originally posted by lnternet

      So depending on what your get-to-the-flop range is you see the turn with something between 88-QQ,AK and 88-QQ,AK,AQ. On this turn you will have to call about 75% of your range as well (his bluffs have less equity now but his sizing decreases). So you call turn with something around 88-QQ to 88-QQ,AK. If he shoves river for 37 into 55 you'll need to call about 60% of your bluffcatchers, so you are looking at 88,JJ,QQ to 88-QQ.


      If you call 77,AJs preflop you have to call down TT for stacks here.
      If you fold 99,AQ preflop you can fold TT on the turn.
      Nice explanation.
      Just a few questions to make sure i understood it all, because I think it is very valuable what I read in your comment.

      1) Because he is solid regg, we assume that he has a bluff range preflop and postflop vs relative unknown MP, so you need to bluff catch enough % in order not to let him exploit us with his bluffs?

      2) What if he play vs unknown player, do we play very tight, or still assume average unknown player e.g. in NL100 have bluffing range? Because, many people have non or very small bluff range e.g. on turn in 3bet pot so we can end up donating money vs him. In this case, I am not sure if it is better to play nitty until we get info about him?

      3) Why do you say we need to call 75% of our range flop? He bets 7$ into 10.75$ pot, so he needs 40% FE, which means we should be calling 60% of our flop range?
      On turn he need 37.5% FE so I guess we need to call 62.5% of our turn range?
      On river he needs 40% FE, so we need to call 60% of our range, so only this one matches with yours and I am not sure what did I understand wrong?

      4) Now, when we estimated exactly how much we need to call on each street in advance, do you have some way how to quicly estimate which combos to call? For example, we see river with 88-QQ, AK, and need to call with 60% of total 46 combos which is 28 combos to call, which means we call 99-QQ and 2 combos of 88. So, how to choose 2 combos of 88? Maybe decide always to call heart and diamond and heart and spade?


      5) If we know that that our opponents range on e.g. river is e.g. 80% bluff, then it makes sense to call 80% of our range to exploit him, rather than calling 60%? I guess, it is hard to know accurately % of bluff range of opponent, so I guess we mostly need to call 60%?