Building 3bet ranges 10-20bb deep

    • Darkyd10
      Darkyd10
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.04.2010 Posts: 1,328
      So im asking myself how can we build 3bet ranges depending on our villain open/defending range

      For the sake of the argument:

      We at 15bb deep
      Villain raises 2bb
      Pot is now 2bb+1,5bb blinds+1bb antes = 4.5bb


      How can we build optimum 3bet range off that based on villain OR and f3bet?
  • 4 replies
    • kurrkabin
      kurrkabin
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 5,976
      You don't have a 3bet/fold range for less than 20bb eff. Or at least, you shouldn't as they u get the odds to 3be/call and you are making a mathematical mistake.

      I think the CO line is 18bb eff.

      Vs opponents who raises a lot for 16bb eff. or less, hardly ever flat, just shove a huge part of your range. When I say huge, I mean close to any, maybe except for the bottom 20%. That all, ofc, if he's raise/calling a reasonable range. Not some maniac, who will raise call 87s or Q7o for 16bb.

      What you can do, however, is ,say, u play a very competent reg, who will be raising a much more narrow range, like 40%, just flat your middling hands if u think they will be minus EV to be pushed. Also, what u can do is 3bet non-all in a hand like J7s, which will look super strong and might cause him to fold K9o, QTs, pocket 66 which were originally meant to be a r/c.
    • zilltine
      zilltine
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.03.2010 Posts: 395
      Originally posted by kurrkabin
      You don't have a 3bet/fold range for less than 20bb eff. Or at least, you shouldn't as they u get the odds to 3be/call and you are making a mathematical mistake.

      So, lets say wide opener (reg, (opens 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo) 29.71% ) minraise 2bb (everyone at the table is 16bb deep). We sit at button and hold K6s. We 3bet to 4.7bb because we expect to get a lot of credit and villain 4bet shoves only 88+ AQs+, AKo (4.68%). SB and BB continues only JJ+. So at that situation we risk 4.7bb to win 3.5bb and need ~ 52% fold equity to make our bluff +EV. Original raiser will continue ~15-16% of the time given our ranges are correct. Overall we get around 80% fold equity which makes our 3bet to 4.7bb super awesome.

      Unfortunately original raiser 4bet shoves over you. We need 11.3/36.5 (30.95%) equity to make correct call (assuming there is no icm penalty). Against 88+, AQs+ AKo we have 28.81% equity.

      In this highly unlikely scenario 3bet/fold would be our best play (given reg ignores NAI 3bet and his stack off range doesnt change)?
    • kurrkabin
      kurrkabin
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 5,976
      Are you talking about 6-max game? As you said- this is highly unlikely scenario. Especially hoping the blinds to continue with JJ+ only.

      Also, I said I think the cut off line will be about 18bb- obviously depending on preflop raise size + our 3bet sizing. I also follow the idea that the reg is gonna fold the bottom part of his range. That's why I advocate for 3bet non all in even with these stack sizes every now and then so that the other player will level himself into folding. But not as much as continuing only with AQ+, 88+.
    • zilltine
      zilltine
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.03.2010 Posts: 395
      Originally posted by kurrkabin
      Are you talking about 6-max game? As you said- this is highly unlikely scenario. Especially hoping the blinds to continue with JJ+ only.

      Also, I said I think the cut off line will be about 18bb- obviously depending on preflop raise size + our 3bet sizing. I also follow the idea that the reg is gonna fold the bottom part of his range. That's why I advocate for 3bet non all in even with these stack sizes every now and then so that the other player will level himself into folding. But not as much as continuing only with AQ+, 88+.
      i`m not talking about any size of table :p just general thoughts. Even at husng you can find players 4betting as nitty as that. Guess STT players approach is more about being unexploitable than exploitative since there is more players.