[NL2-NL10] NL10SH AKs not squeezed preflop

    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
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      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BB: $9.92
      UTG: $11.78
      MP: $11.21
      CO: $11.04
      BTN: $14.24
      Hero (SB): $10.68

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with K :heart: A :heart:
      UTG raises to $0.30, MP calls $0.30, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

      Flop: ($1.20) 7 :heart: Q :spade: T :heart: (4 players)
      Hero ??????


      my current game does not involve 3betting vs tight EP opens OOP (tight open EP = under 9 or 10% in other words widest 22+ ATs+ AQo and KJs+) and instead calling with a tight range. Now I'm presented with a squeeze spot I guess its more attractive to make that 3bet but I follow along my standard line of calling due to the UTG open. (I may have to re-evaluate my squeeze range vs UTG now)

      Flop gives me NutFD+GS and it is four-way (hence why squeezing is nice pre). What is your line?

      All players in the hand are basically TAGs whom I have a relatively limited amount of info on. My target is not in the hand having folded on CO.
  • 10 replies
    • nooni2k
      nooni2k
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      Joined: 03.04.2012 Posts: 206
      I might lead here.

      Going for a check raise is ok too I think but my concern is that it's a four-way pot and people will play pretty honestly in them, so it could easily check round on the flop and if the turn bricks you lose a bunch of equity.

      Even if you get raised otf and get it in vs a range of only 77/TT/QQ+ and AQ you'll be 45/55. Throw AK, KQ and KJ in there and it's an even flip.

      Also your hand is under-repped

      If you do lead and get called you can barrel loads of turn cards - any heart, A, K, J

      Just some initial thoughts, like to hear what others think.


      edit: I'm probably not supposed to reply to these right!? man I feel like such a noob around here..
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
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      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Why wouldn't you reply? All thoughts are welcome. You don't need to have a judge avatar for me to consider your point of view lol :f_biggrin:

      If you donkbet/3bet you also get a lot of fold equity if one of the "TAGfish" decides to try the oldschool "raise to see where I'm at" line with TP
    • nooni2k
      nooni2k
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      Joined: 03.04.2012 Posts: 206
      That's good to know! I'm still finding my way around here so not sure of protocol and etiquette :)

      Yeah agree that a donkbet/3bet win is a fine result for us. We flop a ton of equity but we have crappy position so taking initiative and taking the pot down on the flop is okay I think
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
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      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Perhaps we can also think about C/C flop donk turn if the pfr cbets an extreme amount.
    • dalmar469
      dalmar469
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      Joined: 15.04.2011 Posts: 394
      I would c/c on the flop. I think the best thing with this hand is to draw as many opponents we can because we want to hit profitably and get paid. If we check raise we might isolate our hand against 2pairs and sets. Vs 2p we have 42% eq and sets 33%
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi DaPhunk,

      Preflop: So what info do we have on villain? I don't see any stats.

      People at these limits call 3-bets too light so we can still squeeze for value. The potential to pick up the dead money is also appealing. I'd make it 1.1-1.2

      Postflop: I don't see value in betting out ourselves and I would go for a ck/call. Ck/raise has some merits however the person betting is most likely on a hand that's somewhat strong because they would bet into 3 people on a wet board.
    • nooni2k
      nooni2k
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      Joined: 03.04.2012 Posts: 206
      I'm struggling to understand why check/call is good! Can someone expand on the reasons please?

      I dislike it is because basically everyone shuts down if we hit. Any jack or heart on the turn in a big multi way pot like this and our action is probably over I think.

      Why not get the money in while we have the most equity? On a board like this we will definitely get action from more than just sets.

      But here to learn of course so I'd like to see why I'm wrong!
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
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      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      hello :spade:

      Originally posted by dalmar469
      I would c/c on the flop. I think the best thing with this hand is to draw as many opponents we can because we want to hit profitably and get paid. If we check raise we might isolate our hand against 2pairs and sets. Vs 2p we have 42% eq and sets 33%
      this is spot on imo.
      one pair hands will not stack off on this flop, it'd be super massively overplayed given the 4-way dynamic.

      Originally posted by nooni2k
      I'm struggling to understand why check/call is good! Can someone expand on the reasons please?
      i also prefer check/call.
      let's consider the alternatives:

      check/fold: please no
      lead out: little fold equity. there are a ton of hands that will continue on this flop: Qx, KJ, hearts, maybe some gutshots, maybe Tx, maybe other random hands.
      that could be not that bad as we beat some draws with A high but it will be tough to evaluate oop.
      also might get us in an awkward spot if we get raised, most likely it will be 2p+.
      check/raise: looks super strong and we might manage to fold out made hands. however, when someone bets into 4 people, he will most likely have a fairly good hand (as bogdan said) but it can't be super awfully terrible because we'll always have at least 33% equity. do we get enough folds though?
      check/call: keep all dominated draws in, practically guarantees that we will see a turn for great odds (unless we get a bet and a raise before our turn)

      i don't think everyone shuts down if we hit.
      a non-heart J improves so many hands to twopair or pair+oesd, that would be the gin card.
      it's tougher to get action on hearts, probably just have to bet and hope for the best. 4-way it's reasonably possible that someone has a dominated heart draw too.

      would proceed with some caution on A/K though as these might give villains a straight or a two pair sometimes.
    • nooni2k
      nooni2k
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      Joined: 03.04.2012 Posts: 206
      Awesome, thanks Tomaloc, that's just what I wanted to see!

      It's possibly a leak of mine that whenever I flop a large equity share my main goal is to get as much money in on the flop. Perhaps this isn't the ideal spot for that approach.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
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      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Originally posted by nooni2k
      Awesome, thanks Tomaloc, that's just what I wanted to see!

      It's possibly a leak of mine that whenever I flop a large equity share my main goal is to get as much money in on the flop. Perhaps this isn't the ideal spot for that approach.
      This reminds me of a theoretical reason I quite like check/calling sometimes with some nut draws if I have a very aggressive image.

      I feel like some very aggressive people themselves can level themselves when I hit into thinking "but he can't have the nut draw, he's so aggressive he would have C/R flop with it not C/C"

      I do believe that point is more relevant to HU game-flow vs an observant opponent though. It can't be so useful in 6max and our hand will still look very obvious 4-way when we hit.

      Thought I'd mention it though as I find this idea quite cool.


      edit: I forgot to mention the stats I was asked for.

      I said all villains were tags. They are all in that 21/17 ballpark and I thought it would also be obvious the open-raiser has positional stats that indicate to me he has under 10% open EP, in this case I estimate 8% open.