[NL2-NL10] NL10SH AJo 3bet pot vs pfr check

    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      Hero (CO): $20.91
      BTN: $19.77
      SB: $25.66
      BB: $18.39
      UTG: $32.09

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with J :spade: A :diamond:
      1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.90, Hero calls $0.60

      Flop: ($1.85) Q :spade: 5 :club: T :heart: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero??????


      Villain is 45/32 on 48 hands. 4/5 fvscbet, 2/4cbet. not much other info.


      Anyone else want to barrel off here? Sometimes we get trapped, but it feels like we can put sooooo much pressure on villain who gets stubborn with 2nd pair. oh, + we have equity
  • 8 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi DaPhunk,

      Preflop: Why are we calling the 3-bet here? I rather not call with little information with hands that rarely flop something.

      As played, we should bet/fold that flop.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      sorry I forgot to include the 3bet% stat (I assume I had this?).

      If I'm not sure on 3bet stats I'm still going to assume a 45/38 player has a wide enough 3bet range that I can defend AJo otherwise I'd be folding too much pre. (AJo is in my gameplan for a defence range when I open 36% of hands, If I was only opening 30% which I admit is possible then its not ideal but not the end of the world)

      It does seem to me that by calling here with AJo in position I should be able to lose less than the 3bb I do by folding. I'm planning a holdem manager review to see how well these defends are going when I have a good sample using my newest ranges.
    • bmfbpi
      bmfbpi
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2008 Posts: 590
      Originally posted by DaPhunk
      sorry I forgot to include the 3bet% stat (I assume I had this?).

      If I'm not sure on 3bet stats I'm still going to assume a 45/38 player has a wide enough 3bet range that I can defend AJo otherwise I'd be folding too much pre. (AJo is in my gameplan for a defence range when I open 36% of hands, If I was only opening 30% which I admit is possible then its not ideal but not the end of the world)

      It does seem to me that by calling here with AJo in position I should be able to lose less than the 3bb I do by folding. I'm planning a holdem manager review to see how well these defends are going when I have a good sample using my newest ranges.
      AJ is simply not a good hand to call a 3bet with. Heck, it's not even suited. The only thing AJ does here is remove some of his Ax combos. Would you call 3 streets on an A high board ?
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Originally posted by bmfbpi
      Would you call 3 streets on an A high board ?
      How long is a piece of string? Do you 4bet AKo vs a 3bet here and calldown with AQo? What is the difference between AQo and AJo when AK beats both of them?


      My short answer is probably that it depends on villain and board texture.... I'm not particularly afraid of calling down 3 streets on a relatively dry Ahi board where a flush-draw misses if that's what you mean, when the FD hits on turn I probably call turn and fold river.


      If you feel like it might you tell me why you think AJo is "just not a good hand to call with" and what hands you might call or 4bet with when you raise 36% of your hands on CO?
    • bmfbpi
      bmfbpi
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2008 Posts: 590
      Originally posted by DaPhunk
      Originally posted by bmfbpi
      Would you call 3 streets on an A high board ?
      What is the difference between AQo and AJo when AK beats both of them?


      ........

      If you feel like it might you tell me why you think AJo is "just not a good hand to call with" and what hands you might call or 4bet with when you raise 36% of your hands on CO?

      Mainly because of combinatorics.
      if the flop is Axy, there are 8 combos of AK (6 offsuit and 2 suited) and 8 combos of AQ (6offsuit and 2 suited), so 16 combos that beat you kicker-wise.
      if you had AQ then there would only be half the combos.

      so, basically because there are more combos that beat you
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      From your response it sounds like you are imagining him to have a rather tighter 3bet range than I think he has. What 3bet range do you personally think he has?

      I know it doesn't scale like this, but how many hands would a 45/38 be 3betting? As we know, 3bet ranges can be constructed very differently as well so we know the pure % of hands he plays won't be as helpful as giving him an actual range.
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,343
      Simply 4-bet or fold. You can't play that hand so profitably. And if he is loose pre it doesn't mean he 3-bets that much.

      Here I'd 4-bet for value, if we know he is out of his mind.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by CPallo
      Simply 4-bet or fold. You can't play that hand so profitably. And if he is loose pre it doesn't mean he 3-bets that much.

      Here I'd 4-bet for value, if we know he is out of his mind.
      I doubt we can justify a 4-bet for value versus a guy that we only have 50 hands on.

      If we 4-bet is as a bluff which is not overly terrible.