[NL2-NL10] nl10sh KK OOP 3bet pot,A high flop

    • EnterG
      EnterG
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2010 Posts: 632
      Boss, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      MP: $19.21 (192.1 bb)
      CO: $6.04 (60.4 bb)
      BTN: $11.87 (118.7 bb)
      Hero (SB): $10.05 (100.5 bb)
      BB: $4.49 (44.9 bb)
      UTG: $9.89 (98.9 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with K K
      UTG folds, MP raises to $0.35, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.15, BB folds, MP calls $0.80

      Flop: ($2.40) A 9 9 (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.70, MP raises to $3.40, Hero folds

      Results:
      $5.80 pot ($0.31 rake)
      Final Board: A 9 9
      MP mucked and won $5.49 ($2.64 net)
      Hero mucked K K and lost (-$2.85 net)



      Opponent is TAG VPIP 16/PFR 13/FOLD TO 3BET 67/AF 5.9/WTS 14/W%SD 71/HANDS 400.
      Should i play my hand different ? Is this always an A on flop ??

      Thanks !
  • 8 replies
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Hello,

      Preflop is good.

      When he calls your 3bet what hands do you put him on?
      What's the reason for cbetting the flop here - are we expecting to get called by worse (what?) or to make better fold (what?).
      Also, why do you bet so big here?

      Best,
      Plamen
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      I would almost always bet/fold this flop against such a player. By checking we risk giving draws a free turn and I think if we check it has to be x/fold since we would have to be guessing for a lot of money if we start x/c'ing.

      I don't think we are getting bluffed too often. I think that it's possible he raises you here with air and FD's sometimes but bet/calling and then trying to induce on turn and river would get messy IMO. What's our plan for future streets OOP?

      His stats seem to indicate that he is fairly competent so I would expect this to be AX / 99 or a semibluff. I think a pure bluff in a 3b pot would be almost never.

      NH
    • bmfbpi
      bmfbpi
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2008 Posts: 590
      Originally posted by muel294
      I would almost always bet/fold this flop against such a player. By checking we risk giving draws a free turn and I think if we check it has to be x/fold since we would have to be guessing for a lot of money if we start x/c'ing.

      I don't think we are getting bluffed too often. I think that it's possible he raises you here with air and FD's sometimes but bet/calling and then trying to induce on turn and river would get messy IMO. What's our plan for future streets OOP?

      His stats seem to indicate that he is fairly competent so I would expect this to be AX / 99 or a semibluff. I think a pure bluff in a 3b pot would be almost never.

      NH
      If you take his pfr, f23bet and combinatorics into consideration i would say that draws are a very small part of his range here because there is the A clubs on the board, also because you have 2 kings there are less Kx combos, so in that what concerns his draws the only viable draw i see him having is KcQc.

      If you bet this flop what do you do on a blank turn ? How about a club turn ?
    • bmfbpi
      bmfbpi
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2008 Posts: 590
      Originally posted by muel294
      I would almost always bet/fold this flop against such a player. By checking we risk giving draws a free turn and I think if we check it has to be x/fold since we would have to be guessing for a lot of money if we start x/c'ing.

      I don't think we are getting bluffed too often. I think that it's possible he raises you here with air and FD's sometimes but bet/calling and then trying to induce on turn and river would get messy IMO. What's our plan for future streets OOP?

      His stats seem to indicate that he is fairly competent so I would expect this to be AX / 99 or a semibluff. I think a pure bluff in a 3b pot would be almost never.

      NH
      And i just saw in another thread of yours the hand where you have QQ and check the flop on ATT. What's the difference between this hand and that one ? It's basically the same
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      If you take his pfr, f23bet and combinatorics into consideration i would say that draws are a very small part of his range here because there is the A clubs on the board, also because you have 2 kings there are less Kx combos, so in that what concerns his draws the only viable draw i see him having is KcQc.

      If you bet this flop what do you do on a blank turn ? How about a club turn ?


      Good point.

      So, even if we are not concerned about draws too much here what line would you take? Would you x/f, x/c and re-evaluate turn?

      If we were IP I would feel much more comfortable checking behind on this flop so as not to turn our hand into a bluff.
    • bmfbpi
      bmfbpi
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2008 Posts: 590
      I would c/c flop and re-eval turn, and fold to any turn aggression unless it's a K if course
    • EnterG
      EnterG
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2010 Posts: 632
      I think x/c looks weak in this flop.If i had an A for example would i check ? (unless i had AA or quads and wanted to slowplay).I bet to get info.
      I bet to get called or make fold any lower PP or draws.
      So what is the best line here (or bet size)?

      Thanks !
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Hey,

      First of all I want to talk about this -
      I bet to get info.
      Information is not a reason to bet - it is a bonus that we get from a bet. The three reasons for betting are:
      - value
      - bluff
      - make him fold his equity.

      So, if we check here we don't have to necessarily check/call here - we can check/fold as well and I don't think it would be bad. I do expect him to check back his pairs and if we take this line it would be easier for us to take value from them on the later streets.

      Of course, I wouldn't say that betting here is bad, if we only use our fold equity, since we are likely to get the needed fold equity, but then why would we want to bet so big here when we just don't need it?
      I mean, this is a 3bet pot, the SPR is smaller, so we can easily go for a smaller sizing like $1.3-$1.4 with our whole range.

      So, I wouldn't mind betting here if we only use our fold equity, but you should go for a smaller sizing.

      Best,
      Plamen