SNG Wiz Vs. Nash

    • Paluzzo
      Paluzzo
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 593
      Hi,

      I'm begining SNG's and appear a doubt to me.

      I know that the suggestions SNG Wiz gives depends on the vilans range, and i think, that the nash ranges are the unexploitable ones.

      In this situation:


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      SNGWiz suggest: 10.3

      Where Nash say: 19.8%, 22+ A2s+ A9o+ K9s+ KJo+ Q9s+ QJo J9s+ T9s (Almost 10% more)

      For which of them should i look in order to adjust to the vilans.

      Thank You
  • 8 replies
    • Mugge88
      Mugge88
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2006 Posts: 510
      Hi

      First thing i notice is that you have put all your villains to loose/very loose in SNG wiz. I have a hard time imagining any table that is actually that loose, so you can definately push wider that SNG wiz suggests in this example.

      Regarding SNG wiz/nash you get similar ranges if you put in nash ranges for all villains (dont forget to edit all push/call ranges for every scenario and set your edge to 0.00, if you want to test this).

      Personally I find that nash ranges is a very good place to start and then adjust from there, and when you get specific situations where you are in doubt put them in the wiz and take your time to adjust all ranges to what you believe to be true. You can train the nash ranges with the ICM trainer from pokerstrategy :)

      How to adjust is another matter but of course the basic is to tighten up your pushing range vs. loose opponents and loosen up your calling range vs. loose opponents and the other way around. It takes some study to know approximate nash ranges from villains position to see if he is looser or tighter than nash and then to incoorperate that into your game - But if you really mastered this you would probably be beating all limits ;)

      To come with a specific example: In most cases at the microlimits people are actually not calling as loose as nash suggest so against many opponents in most situations you can push especially BU/SB wider than nash - Try to look specific situations up in SNG wiz using the chart option in the top to see how wide they can call you for a push to be -$EV.

      In other situations they are calling way too loose. Especially around the bubble you can see some extemely bad calls where the middlestack practically gives away money to the shortstack.

      Well.. That turned out longer than i expected.. The tl.dr. version: Train with and adjust from nash - evaluate your play with wiz.
    • Paluzzo
      Paluzzo
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 593
      Mugge88,

      Really appreciate your answer. It really helped. Thank you

      I'm playing the 1.5$ level, it is because of it that i put my opponents in a loose range. There are tighter ones, but i was trying to generalise.

      I'll work more with ICM trainer. Any particular advise you can give me about studying ICM?

      I'm thinking to do
      - ICM trainer
      - filter past situations on HM an analyse them

      What do you think?

      Thank You
    • Mugge88
      Mugge88
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2006 Posts: 510
      I'm happy to help :)

      I'm playing the 1,5$ myself atm too and even there i wouldn't describe the average player as loose/very loose when calling pushes. Sure there are many loose recreational players who fits the description, but even so, i think you should be careful not to put there ranges too loose in general when analyzing your play - What's your screenname btw - I might have some notes/hands on you I could comment on if you like :)

      My advise on using the ICM trainer would be:
      - Use it often until you have a great understanding of every possible AI/fold situation there is. When you see spots you dont believe to be the best play (the ICM trainer is assuming our villains play nash as well) try to type it into the SNG wiz with more accurate ranges. If it still doesn't make sense try posting examples on the forum and have a coach explain it.
      - Don't just click the push/fold buttons when using the program. Try to estimate how big a % you can push/call in that spot or even better name the cards within that range. It may seem absurd, but practising the ranges will help ALOT.
      - You may wanna print a nash chart (http://www.holdemresources.net/h/poker-theory/hune.html) and use the "Pusher" chart for unexploitably HU play when playing (The "Caller" chart asumes villain is pushing nash so you often have to adjust you calling range for optimal play).

      As for filtering past situations I think it might be just as easy to load the HH folder for the specific date into the Wiz and look through the entire session this way. I do this everytime after a session and look at all the wrong or borderline descisions (according to wiz) and on the hands i noted during play.

      Best regards and good luck at the tables
      - Mikkel
    • Paluzzo
      Paluzzo
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 593
      Hi,

      My screen name is Hipo8, what is yours? Yes, i would like to have an opinion on my play ;) .

      How long are you playing them? How is your evolution going?

      Thanks for the advices. I do think on the ranges when i'm using it, i was just wondering if there are one more proactive way of learning it, but i'll work hard with the icm trainer and check the evolution.

      I use the nash ranges HU as well.

      I do this too. Every time after the games, i analyse my plays on sngwiz, but sometimes happen, that when i do arrive on the last tournament, i don't remember what i checked in the first one. Hope that i'm making sense.

      Thanks for the help ;)

      Good luck!
    • Mugge88
      Mugge88
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2006 Posts: 510
      You play normal or turbos? I'm in the turbos

      I dont have any hands on you yet :) Played some years ago and decided to give it a shot about a month again, so just starting out as well :) I think I'm beating the limit although I havn't been running very hot lately so still my numbers are slightly in the negative, but been rising towards positive values again and studying every day to improve my game :)

      My screen name is Cnidarian007
    • Paluzzo
      Paluzzo
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 593
      Hi Mugge88,

      Sorry for the late response, but i was working.

      I'm playing just Turbos. Have about 100 tournaments since 1 of April, the date when I begin to play again.

      studying every day to improve my game


      me too ;) . Are you having coaching or something? Maybe we could do something together (sessions, HH review), just an idea.

      Where are you from?

      See you on the tables ;)
    • Mugge88
      Mugge88
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2006 Posts: 510
      Havn't been around a computer for the weekend, so sorry for the delayed answer from my side too :)

      I'm not getting private coachings but I attend the coachings on ps when possible.. It would be very nice to help each other out with some HH reviews or something from time to time :)

      I'm from Denmark btw.
    • Paluzzo
      Paluzzo
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 593
      Hi Mugge88,

      Already add you on the community, so we can talk.

      Yes, i think thats good to know other persons perspective.

      Good luck on the tables.