[NL2-NL10] [SH] Bluff 3b spot

    • GreenPiece
      GreenPiece
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2010 Posts: 5,962
      PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players

      Opponent unknown

      BTN: $5.50
      SB: $10.96
      BB: $17.28
      UTG: $2.93
      MP: $3.25
      Hero (CO): $5.00

      SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

      Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has A:diamond: 6:diamond:

      fold, MP raises to $0.15, Hero raises to $0.45, fold, fold, fold, MP calls $0.30

      Flop: ($0.97, 2 players) 5:heart: 6:spade: J:diamond:
      MP checks, Hero bets $0.50, MP calls $0.50

      Turn: ($1.97, 2 players) K:spade:
      MP checks, Hero bets $1.00, MP calls $1.00

      River: ($3.97, 2 players) 3:diamond:
      MP checks, Hero checks

      I think I played this one not best. On the preflop opponents fold often enough to justify this action imho.

      On the flop I do have middle pair but still can be outdrawn by his 6 outs and besides it I can use good turn cards to 2-barrel so I choose to bet.

      On the turn it's a good card to force his pockets, maybe weak jacks to fold + not give anything for free for 87o.

      On the river it's all over.

      I don't think it was a good idea to bet flop and try this bluff on this low limit.
  • 7 replies
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Hello,

      I don't mind bluff 3betting here but I have a question for you - which hands are you value 3betting here and which hand are you bluffing here with?

      As played, just check back the flop. Our main intention preflop was to bluff, we didn't succeed plus we have showdown value so just try to get to showdown as cheap as possible.

      As played on the flop, I like betting this turn here.

      Once we get called on two streets, checking back the river is fine.

      Best,
      Plamen
    • GreenPiece
      GreenPiece
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2010 Posts: 5,962
      Actually I don't consider it as a value 3bet, it's a bluff 3bet with the intention of forcing stronger Ax and PPs to fold OOP.

      Our hand is in a middle value category, tight? Can you please give some guidelines when the bet with such a hand may be justified?
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Actually I don't consider it as a value 3bet, it's a bluff 3bet with the intention of forcing stronger Ax and PPs to fold OOP.
      Well, I know that this is a bluff 3bet but I was interested in what is your value range here, and what's your bluff range here.

      Can you please give some guidelines when the bet with such a hand may be justified?
      I would only bet the flop here if we know the guy:
      - folds a lot against cbets and calls a lot preflop - which means we can make him fold a lot of his hands and show profit
      - calls a lot preflop and never folds anything - so we can value bet even with this middle pair.
    • GreenPiece
      GreenPiece
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2010 Posts: 5,962
      Originally posted by kymupa
      Well, I know that this is a bluff 3bet but I was interested in what is your value range here, and what's your bluff range here.
      Value range is a range we can comfortably get it AI so it's KK+ (cause I don't expect many calls OOP, either 4b or fold). It's a bit unbalanced cause I would call JJ-QQ, AQ-AK IP here and bluff 3bs from me are more probable than value 3bs but opponents don't know it. But they don't know they should fold smth like AJo OOP vs 3b so I think I can widen my value range here.

      I was playing FL for quite a long time and now I'm trying to apply known NL theory in practice so I can't say I have a solid game, it's in the development and as I don't know average population tendencies quite often it appears I learn it the hard way.
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Basically, when we want to build up our 3betting range, we should have a good ratio between value and bluffing.
      It is estimated that you are most balanced if you use 1:1.5 value: bluff, and the value range should also include the "semi-value" hands - those are the hands that we 3bet with the intention to fold against 4bet, but they are better than the hands he is likely to call the 3bet with.
    • GreenPiece
      GreenPiece
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2010 Posts: 5,962
      Originally posted by kymupa
      include the "semi-value" hands - those are the hands that we 3bet with the intention to fold against 4bet, but they are better than the hands he is likely to call the 3bet with.
      Thanks for 1\1.5 ratio, didn't know about it, will definitely explore this topic further.

      But what can we treat a "semi-value" hand if an unknown opponent calls say AK, AQs OOP and no wider? Vs fish it's obvious, we can even 3bet QJ if he plays minraise and will call our 3b with almost every hand. But vs usual opponent who plays OOP?

      If he is IP we can 3bet wider obviously, say we are BB vs BU, we can 3bet AJs and he can call QJs & JTs IP so it's clearer in this situation.
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Against a player we expect to call really tight we can start calling the "semi-value hands" and only 3betting value hands (e.g. KK+) and bluffs.

      In this case though, villain sits on a 65 bb stack, so it is quite unusual for him to be a good player, so I would rather widen my value and semi-value range, and 3bet less as a bluff.