Outs and Odds

    • kokuzbaksuz
      kokuzbaksuz
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.08.2008 Posts: 14
      Hi all,

      I was going through different articles and learning as much as I could but the thing with Outs, Pot Odds and corelation between them to figure out if it's worth to pursue a draw or not, seems to be quite time consuming in order to use it in live game on the spot. Is there any way to be able to learn it faster and more simple or it's just my imagination that it seems to be complex to use it quickly when needed. I'm just a beginner so excuse my ignorance concerning the matter. I just wish to learn as fast as I can.

      Thanks all for your replies!

      kokuzbaksuz
  • 9 replies
    • Vevusio
      Vevusio
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 33
      hm not really, some you will know by heart pretty soon

      flush draw on the flop gives you a 35% chance to hit on either turn or river and on each around 20%

      lets say you have some huge draw with 15 outs on the flop then there are ~45 cards left

      15 / 45 = ~33% on each the turn and river

      you just need to multiply/divide, you can do that quite fast in your head, besides there are these thumb rules like
      percent on turn/river = outs * 2 + 1
      percent on completing with turn and river = outs * 4% - 2%

      smth like that, you get used to it quite fast
    • kokuzbaksuz
      kokuzbaksuz
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.08.2008 Posts: 14
      I guess you learn a lot of those by heart and it comes natural to figure it out in live game... I hope it won't take me too long to get there.... Thanks for your input!
    • delete461
      delete461
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.07.2008 Posts: 1,036
      In the outs and odds article there is a chart with some basic odds you should know. Either print this chart out or have it open in another window while you play and check it whenever you need to, after a while you will know them by heart.
    • straddler71
      straddler71
      Global
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 516
      Hey kokuzbaksuz. I use a different formula, its much easier to remember, its the rule of 4 and 2. The formula overstates the odds by only a few percentage points but Im willing to live with it. Flop comes out, your drawing multiply no. of outs times 4, turn comes out multiply no. of outs by 2.

      IMPORTANT: Only count the outs that help you. Some of your outs can give your opponent a higher flush or straight draw.

      Lets do an example. I have 5-1 odds of completing a gut shot from flop to river. I have ak. Flop is 10 j 2 rainbow. I now have a gut shot straght draw. Pot is $8.00, my opponent bets $2.00. I am given 5-1 pot odds to call. Im getting the right odds to call. 4 out of 5 times I will miss creating a loss of $8.00 on the turn. The 1 time I hit I will make $12.00 creating a long term profit of $4.00. Using rules of 4 and 2 I have a 16% chance of hitting it on the turn and a 8% chance of hitting it on the river.

      Pot odds only apply to you if your drawing, if you already have a made hand pot odds apply to your opponent and don't apply to you.

      Im sure some of you will disapprove with this formula to figure out when its right to call and when its right to fold. Thats okay, I prefer a simple way to figure things out. Use whats best for you.
    • kokuzbaksuz
      kokuzbaksuz
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.08.2008 Posts: 14
      Thank you all for your inputs. My first day playing with bonus money on FTP generated $22 and I don't know if that's just plain luck, but I noticed that when I sticked to the "book" (principles that PokerStrategy teaches) I was winning and when I wanted to try something new I would end up in loss. I guess these guys know what they are talking about...

      I'll be sticking around...

      kokuzbaksuz
    • Chiller3k
      Chiller3k
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 4,326
      Hi kokuzbaksuz,
      may I ask you what strategy and which limit you are playing on fulltilt poker?
      winning 22$ at your first day is quiet impressive but leads to the presumption that you are playing with a wrong bankrollmanagment.
      As you already noticed the strategy articles are a good basis for solid poker play so my advise to you would be to also stick to the strategy concerning the BRM (bankrollmanagment).

      Best regards,
      Chiller3k
    • kokuzbaksuz
      kokuzbaksuz
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.08.2008 Posts: 14
      I started playing SSS at .5/.10 and tried the same strategy at .10/.25. Was I wrong to go up the level so early?
    • kokuzbaksuz
      kokuzbaksuz
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.08.2008 Posts: 14
      This morning I lost $2 at .5/.10 with SSS with pocket pair of Aces... the oponent had A5s and went All-In in preflop. He played foolishly and I played according to the book, and he still won. I guess that's part of luck too...
    • Chiller3k
      Chiller3k
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 4,326
      hi kokuzbaksuz,
      as you can read here: http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/no-limit/825/2/ you should at least have 150$ to move up to NL25 with the SSS.

      Sometimes you loose with AA that's normal... you will get used to it ;)

      Best regards,
      Chiller3k