[NL20-NL50] NL50 SH - 65s

    • Lunitis
      Lunitis
      Gold
      Joined: 22.02.2009 Posts: 20,135
      22/21
      30% steal CO
      60% fold vs 3bet
      84% cbet flop
      69% fold vs raise flop
      40% cbet turn
      43% fold river after checking turn ip (40)
      17% agg% river
      48% wwsf
      10k hands

      Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $50 (100 bb)
      Hero (BB): $62.13 (124.3 bb)
      UTG: $21.50 (43 bb)
      MP: $57 (114 bb)
      CO: $50 (100 bb)
      BTN: $25.75 (51.5 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 5
      2 folds, CO raises to $1.25, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.75

      Flop: ($2.75) 4 5 7 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

      Turn: ($5.75) 9 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks

      River: ($5.75) T (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $3, Hero fold?

      Its ok to flat this hand planing on a lot o c/r flop?
      And this pos-flop...ok ?
  • 9 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,907
      Hi,

      I think your hand is marginal for that but given the smaller sizing as well it's doable. What I don't get now is why you stray away from your plan of check/raising flops a lot and now just call what looks like a weak sizing anyway? Don't forget your made hand is very weak so you cannot call to get to showdown that much on this board. I think you have better EV in turning your hand into a bluff with great equity holding midpair + OESD.
    • Lunitis
      Lunitis
      Gold
      Joined: 22.02.2009 Posts: 20,135
      OK.
      So you would raise/shove§fold?
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,907
      I would usually not fold after I raise. You get a bit of folding equity if he 3bets and you get to shove and if he shoves, although it's a big sizing I think he does it often enough with a flushdraw and such hands that you do get the required 40%ish to call it of with your pair and OESD.

      I would basically treat this hand as a strong semi-bluff.

      Our absolute worst scenario imo:


      Board: 4:club: 5:spade: 7:spade:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    28.47%  26.68%   1.78% { 6d5d }
      MP3    71.53%  69.75%   1.78% { 77, 55-44, 75s, 54s }



      A more likely scenario imo would be this.


      Board: 4:club: 5:spade: 7:spade:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    38.40%  35.80%   2.60% { 6d5d }
      MP3    61.60%  58.99%   2.60% { QQ+, 88-44, 75s+, AsKs, AsQs, KsQs, AsJs, AsTs, Ts8s, 9s8s, As6s, As4s, As3s, As2s }


      We basically might have a problem with calling if he shoves with that range but I don't think he shoves when you make it like $5 on the flop. That means you should have some folding equity and face more than that range. Apart from this, you win this pot a lot more often than when you call. If you just call you most often lose, you don't have implied odds on 4 to a striaght, etc.
    • Lunitis
      Lunitis
      Gold
      Joined: 22.02.2009 Posts: 20,135
      Ok.

      Dont you think our calling range in this flop its capped and easy to play against? Calling with this hand i could do some funny things like c/r the turn..
    • double2
      double2
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 04.11.2008 Posts: 14,642
      Originally posted by Lunitis
      Ok.

      Dont you think our calling range in this flop its capped and easy to play against? Calling with this hand i could do some funny things like c/r the turn..
      But your equity drops massively on most turns. And for you to c/r he needs to bet again, which probably means you're now against a stronger range than the one that cbeted flop and with less EQ.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,907
      Originally posted by double2
      Originally posted by Lunitis
      Ok.

      Dont you think our calling range in this flop its capped and easy to play against? Calling with this hand i could do some funny things like c/r the turn..
      But your equity drops massively on most turns. And for you to c/r he needs to bet again, which probably means you're now against a stronger range than the one that cbeted flop and with less EQ.
      This is correct.

      Apart from that, once you call the flop your range is indeed capped so when you c/r turn you already exclude 9 combos of your value range in a spot where your overall range doesn't contain many combos anyway, let alone value combos that can raise. It will still work some of the time but, like double2 also mentioned, you need him to bet again on a drawy board which means he will have a stronger range that you really want him to have when you are bluffing.
    • Lunitis
      Lunitis
      Gold
      Joined: 22.02.2009 Posts: 20,135
      So will you ever have a call down or c/c c/r in this spot?
      Shoudnt we have some hands that allow us to be aggressive later?

      Would you use flush draws? ...flush draws wont have show down value when villain checks behind turn (unless some nut flush draws).
    • double2
      double2
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 04.11.2008 Posts: 14,642
      Originally posted by Lunitis
      So will you ever have a call down or c/c c/r in this spot?
      Shoudnt we have some hands that allow us to be aggressive later?

      Would you use flush draws? ...flush draws wont have show down value when villain checks behind turn (unless some nut flush draws).
      Hmm, I don't think I have a c/c and c/r bluffing range in this spot, which means I shouldn't have a c/c c/r value range (and i don't think i have).

      What flush draws turn do we check call flop? Maybe A7o with A of spades but even that we might not have in the call pre flop range. We do have FDs with showdown value like 88, maybe TT (i would 3bet) ,but those we can c/c again. I also c/c flop with non nut FD, like a KsTs. I would c/r flop with the nut FD.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,907
      I would actually check/call some flushdraws here.. mostly FD with 2 overs since we can check/call turn very often again with our outs.

      The thing is, most people 2 barrel reasonably strong ranges so you don't want to bluff to much with a turn c/r.. if you see people 2 barrel weak, then I like your idea of including 65s in this range. It's just an 'it depends' spot wher eyou have to know your opponent has a high enough frequency that you can make your play with.