[NL20-NL50] KK vs 4bet deep

    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      iPoker - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      Hero (SB): 279.34 BB
      BB: 116.96 BB (VPIP: 27.76, PFR: 25.34, 3Bet Preflop: 11.25, Hands: 387)
      UTG: 99.5 BB (VPIP: 22.66, PFR: 19.57, 3Bet Preflop: 8.91, Hands: 4,330)
      CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 21.73, PFR: 18.87, 3Bet Preflop: 7.55, Hands: 2,591)
      BTN: 212.48 BB (VPIP: 29.13, PFR: 24.33, 3Bet Preflop: 13.30, Hands: 580)

      Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

      Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:heart: K:spade:

      fold, fold, BTN raises to 2.5 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, BTN raises to 22 BB, Hero calls 13 BB

      Flop: (45 BB, 2 players) 6:diamond: 9:club: 2:heart:
      Hero checks, BTN bets 27 BB, Hero calls 27 BB

      Turn: (99 BB, 2 players) 9:diamond:
      Hero checks, BTN bets 51 BB, Hero calls 51 BB

      River: (201 BB, 2 players) 9:heart:
      Hero checks, BTN bets 112.48 BB, Hero calls 112.48 BB

      Hero shows K:heart: K:spade: (Full House, Nines full of Kings) (Pre 72%, Flop 87%, Turn 93%)
      BTN shows A:club: J:heart: (Three of a Kind, Nines) (Pre 28%, Flop 13%, Turn 7%)
      Hero wins 419.96 BB


      Should I avoid playing deep because of this situations?
      I started playing deep because lately many fish are playing deep and make mistakes.

      Fold any street? Board is so perfect that I loose only vs AA, and he played it that way. QQ, JJ never plays that way.
      I had a note that he is aggro 4betting, and cold 4betting, but never saw him how he plays deep.
  • 5 replies
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Hi.

      I think postflop is std. Preflop u can either flat (i like this option in earlier positions) or min5b to 38bb and hope for some 6b spazz. And if u are 5b bluffing quite a bit u should widen ur range to include qq ak too.

      I dont think the avg nl50guy plays so aggro though so he is probably more polarized here and is less likely to 6b ship his AXs. Both options could work though.
    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      Originally posted by mbml
      Hi.

      I think postflop is std. Preflop u can either flat (i like this option in earlier positions) or min5b to 38bb and hope for some 6b spazz. And if u are 5b bluffing quite a bit u should widen ur range to include qq ak too.

      I dont think the avg nl50guy plays so aggro though so he is probably more polarized here and is less likely to 6b ship his AXs. Both options could work though.
      So you want to say, that if you 5bet min, you would call his shove for 210BB deep?
      Can we really expect reggs to shove as bluff 210bb? Or to shove AK, QQ?

      When I would call his 4bet with TT-QQ, does it make any difference from KK when I call the river?
      I think his bet river is only AA if he is value betting, or air as he had, so I think it doesnt make much difference calling river with TT or KK. I think that he would pot control with QQ, KK.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      "So you want to say, that if you 5bet min, you would call his shove for 210BB deep?
      Can we really expect reggs to shove as bluff 210bb? Or to shove AK, QQ?"

      He would, if you 5bet bluffed enough. Then he would widen his value 4bet range and 6bet range. Of course if you were always flatting KK AK QQ and only 5betting AA then he would be less likely to overplay these spots.

      Does it make any difference? Definitely!
      When you have KK, he is 84% less likely to have KK himself.

      Why should he pot control KK if you are expected to 6bet AA?
    • GingerKid
      GingerKid
      Black
      Joined: 05.08.2007 Posts: 5,530
      Originally posted by mbml
      "So you want to say, that if you 5bet min, you would call his shove for 210BB deep?
      Can we really expect reggs to shove as bluff 210bb? Or to shove AK, QQ?"

      He would, if you 5bet bluffed enough. Then he would widen his value 4bet range and 6bet range. Of course if you were always flatting KK AK QQ and only 5betting AA then he would be less likely to overplay these spots.

      Does it make any difference? Definitely!
      When you have KK, he is 84% less likely to have KK himself.

      Why should he pot control KK if you are expected to 6bet AA?
      I wouldnt 5bet AA, because I see that he 4bets a lot, and cant expect him to stack off QQ, AK and probably KK, so I would call also AA knowing that he is able to 3 barrel as bluff.
      I wouldnt be much afraid of sets, because he would probably flat my 3bet with PP, suited cards, and hands like TT-QQ, probably AK, he is IP. So I would expect him to 4bet me with AA, or blockers as he had, which have very small equity vs my AA.
      We didnt have dinamics before playing deep, so I assume he would play this way.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      ok that's certainly fine then, but still kk is way too strong to fold here and kk is still way stronger than QQ.

      You also assume that he thinks you flat AA here and would pot control KK. That is not really an assumption that you should be making without any reason.