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Pairs without initiative

    • TerrorBlade
      Joined: 16.10.2007 Posts: 1,922
      Hey there guys.
      I'm wondering about raised pots or 3-bet where you are holding 2nd pair or worse.

      For example someone raises BU you hold J8 in the BB the flop is J72 if you c/r the flop and get 3-bet it's easy to calldown because you have such a strong hand. But if you are holding Q7s or something how do you play it? Is it EV+ to calldown with 2nd pair? Lately to avoid this problem I've been calling down instead of check/raising with 2nd pair which is not good for higher limits but OK at 1/2 or 2/4 for balancing issues etc.

      I know with draws etc. this isn't really an issue cause you have no showdown value and have much better value from fold equity cause you're getting better hands to fold.
  • 2 replies
    • wilm
      Joined: 13.07.2006 Posts: 1,583
      I think this really depens if im playing OOP or IP and on the stats of the villain and the texture of the board.

      C/r flop , bet/fold turn playing OOP? call flop/raise turn playing IP (wich alot off times is changed into a calldown because some kind off bad card hit on the turn:P )

      Its hard to say really without an specific hand as an example.
    • ciRith
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Hi TerrorBlade,
      this is a really situation depeing queestion.

      As you nearly never raise the flop directly in position I think that you are talking about out of position only.

      Now it depends on your opponent and the board. If a passive opponent 3-bet then folding the turn is often best.

      If your opponent is a TAG then calling down is often better as they won't 3-bet in position on the flop very often so it more often cheap showdown move so depending on the board you should calldown or cap directly (on drawheavy boards).
      If he just calls you and raises the turn again then a fold is often best.

      Against LAGs I tend to calldown on all board structures as they are so unreasonable.