[NL2-NL10] nl10sh QQ OOP vs a shove on flop

    • EnterG
      EnterG
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2010 Posts: 632
      Boss, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BTN: $16.10 (161 bb)
      SB: $16.11 (161.1 bb)
      BB: $7.01 (70.1 bb)
      UTG: $10.25 (102.5 bb)
      MP: $10.10 (101 bb)
      Hero (CO): $10 (100 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with Q Q
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, SB folds, BB calls $0.20

      Flop: ($0.95) 9 9 4 (3 players)
      BB bets $0.20, Hero raises to $0.90, BTN raises to $15.80 and is all-in, BB folds, Hero calls $8.80 and is all-in

      Turn: ($20.55) 8 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
      River: ($20.55) J (2 players, 2 are all-in)

      Results:
      $20.55 pot ($1.02 rake)
      Final Board: 9 9 4 8 J
      BTN showed 9 Q and won $19.53 ($9.53 net)
      BB mucked and lost (-$0.50 net)
      Hero showed Q Q and lost (-$10 net)


      Opponent is fish-aggro vpip 72 / pfr 17 / 3bet pre 3.8 / af 4 / fold to cbet flop 41 / raise cbet flop 25% / wts 21 / w%sd 53/hands 230.I thought i could catch a bluff,semibluff or a worst hand there.Should i fold flop.Is this play always trips ?

      Thanks !
  • 6 replies
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Hi EnterG,

      Preflop: looks fine

      Postflop: I think that that while small donk/3bet is a strong hand almost always a small donk/shove is also possible to be a semibluff, pair, bluff so I would not fold either.
    • EnterG
      EnterG
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2010 Posts: 632
      You misread the hand Bogdan.BB donks i raise and BTN shoves.Is that make a difference ?

      Thanks !
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,343
      Cold 3-bet shove there seems like superstrong hand. 9x. --> FOLD
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by EnterG
      You misread the hand Bogdan.BB donks i raise and BTN shoves.Is that make a difference ?

      Thanks !
      My apologies, I did mis read it.

      If the BTN would 3-bet small I'd agree with CPallo... however, an overbet shove there is less likely to be a monster imo especially from an aggro fish so I would still be inclined to call.
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,343
      I think this is a bit different spot with aggro 3-way than it would be heads-up. It's a cold jam over 2 players, who have shown strength here. Why would he bluff here with flush-draw etc. when it seems clear that at least hero is never folding? I can't see the point on it. It would be a whole different story if we were heads-up with this aggro guy, he could do that with wider range. Now I think his hand is 9x that doesn't want to see a scarecard on turn that kills the action.

      Might be that I'm overleveling myself here, but when 2 players show strength here and I have strong hand I would definitely be inclined to "jam" to make my hand to look like a draw.
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Originally posted by CPallo
      I think this is a bit different spot with aggro 3-way than it would be heads-up. It's a cold jam over 2 players, who have shown strength here. Why would he bluff here with flush-draw etc. when it seems clear that at least hero is never folding? I can't see the point on it. It would be a whole different story if we were heads-up with this aggro guy, he could do that with wider range. Now I think his hand is 9x that doesn't want to see a scarecard on turn that kills the action.

      Might be that I'm overleveling myself here, but when 2 players show strength here and I have strong hand I would definitely be inclined to "jam" to make my hand to look like a draw.
      I don't think that much strength was shown to begin with.

      First villain donks 2x and we raise to just 90c (smaller than the actual pot) and our range can be really wide here since we raise a 2x donk from a fish. Why does it mean that hero isn't folding? Is hero just raising big overpairs and 9x? How about other value/semibluffs?

      And we are going in with the assumption that villain is an aggro fish which adds a lot.